theformula

I don't know if it's just me, but I really could not tell a difference after installing my MSD6AL in my 1992 Firebird Formula 305 TPI.

Actually it seemed like the car was a little more difficult to start. Just a little.

Isn't it possible my stock PROM is programmed for the STOCK ignition. And not an aftermarket one?

My question to you all is, has anyone ever dynoed or ran their cars at the track with the MSD6AL on. And when it's off to see the difference?

thanks

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

The MSD ignition isnt one of those HP mods, its one of those every little bit helps mods. I borrowed one and a blaster coil at the track (2900') and got zero gain or loss with it. But people have said they get better gas mileage and the car is easier to start.

------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

TomP

I just installed a 6AL with a Blaster SS coil, and noticed a difference in performance. The car seems to have more pull all around. My track times eluded to a loss of power around the 1000' mark, hopefully this took care of it.

[edit] Just for clarification, my loss of power was noticed on timeslips -before- the MSD box. The car feels stronger with the MSD, and I really need to get to a track soon!

Theformula, it seems my car also takes longer to start now! It used to take a 1/2 spin of the starter (barely flipping the ign switch), now it's closer to a full spin. And yup I'm letting the fuel pump prime.

Next time I go to the track, I'll try a run without the MSD 6AL box. (I used their wiring harness so I can just plug in my old coil.)


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited October 06, 2000).]

chris83z28

I have a 305 lg4 in a 83 Camaro and installed the MSD 6al ignition and blaster 2 coil. I dropped 3 tenths in the quarter and noticed a substantial increase in throttle response on the bottom end.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I just touch my key and it starts. I had to crank it awhile also then i went over the whole wireing again and pushed everything tight

91Bird305

YOU GAINED 3 TENTHS WITH A MSD BOX? Geez, thats an amazing story. Did u add anything else on between the first and last time u raced on a strip? was the weather colder or anything?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (dropping in a 355 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

1992 B4C 1LE

Anybody have any comments on the MSD "Gm Coil" P/N 8226? I'm planning to upgrade my ignition with a 6AL and a coil. I called MSD to ask if the "Gm Coil" was a performance coils or a OEM replacement. He said it was a performance coil and it's output was 48kv. I know people might suggest the blaster coil series, but I like the idea of the stock placement. Just wondering if anyone had used this coil. Thanks. John

scoob8000

this is one of the reasons i will never buy a MSD product, i didnt like at all the way the 6a worked for my car, almost seemed to loose power and economy..

Rob Gordon

A typical small bock Chevt misfires 5% of the time. With an MSD it misfires .5% of the time

------------------
Iroc 350 5 speed

TomP

John, I think that GM coil is actually called a "Blaster GM Coil"... so you're still buying a Blaster. I know guys with v6's that have "just" added the coil and have felt a difference. Just remember you'll need to buy MSD's wiring harness to plug into that coil.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

EROCK

I am with all of you. I noticed NO gain, The car was harder to start and I installed the 6A, the blaster coil, and the 8.5 msd wires (superconductors). NOTHING!!! Not better on fuel either. may be worse!

Eric

------------------
Teal 1991 Camaro R.S., T-Tops,
Leather, Re-worked 700r4 also w/kit,
MSD ignition, MSD 8.5 mm. superconductor wires,
MSD Coil, ADS superchip, Open element air cleaner,
K-n-N filter, Gutted cat, Flowmaster cat-back system,
Edelbrock TES headers, March 3piece billet underdrive pulleys
3.73 gears
http://www.geocities.com/gitarz2/camaro.html
I was shocked to see that companies sold a taillight
set for a rustang! Since when do they have taillights????

JRoy91RS

Those boxes pull A LOT of amps. My buddy used to have one on a 91 chevy pickup and he completely fried his starter and drained his battery because it pulled something like 3 times the normal amount of current. We were at the coast for spring break when he did it, and he had to pay to have a dealer tow it to the shop and it cost him 600 bucks to fix. Make sure you haul around a starter and tools to install it.

91Bird305

I was told that MSD Boxes and MSD Coils are usually only used for heavily modified engines. Like if I was to put one on my engine it would be fine. But if I was to put one on my engine when it was stock, or had like a open element or something else, it wouldn't do jack. Thats what I was told by a friend that works on cars and from previous posts from awhile back when the site didn't look like this.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (dropping in a 355 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

Superman

91Bird is right,the more heavly modded your engine is the better the results you will get.

scoob8000

there are benefits of an aftermarket ignition amplifier on a stock engine other than power gains, more than a hp gain i noticed with my hy-fire, mainly throttle response, smoother idle and acceleration... but as far as power, there really isnt much to be gained from any ignition system.. in hardcore racing with heavily modded engines they are almost always used as every little even .5 hp helps..

Stell1579

i did notice that w/ my 6a, i eat distributer caps like candy i mean i do 2 or so a year and take them off and clean them carefully w/ files inbetween.

could it be cause i still have a set of kem 7mm wires on it???

as for the msd i did that and the accell coil and it pulls a little harder through the rpm range, doesnot detonate as mutch. sometimes is a little hard to start but rarely, and my gasmileage went up about 2mpg
(15-17 local )

-Stell

------------------
1988 IROC 305TPI MINT!!
Mods= Accell SuperCoil, MSD 6A, Ported Plenum, No MAF Screans , K & N, 160 Thermostat+ Temp Switch
And Always Trying To Go Faster

scoob8000

as far as the caps and plugs wearing quicker this is true too, remember hotter spark, its gonna eat away at the electrodes a lot faster...

Monkie

Wouldnt it be best for the rpm limiter it has? Like the 6000 one or 7000. I was thinking if you have a manual and get side ways in a turn like i do most of the time im redlining or close. So wouldnt this help me not to blow my engine if i put in the 6000 rpm limiter. That way all i could do is redline. Am i on the right track?

88poncho

MSD Tech person Joe LaPille has been trying to get on the board to respond to you guys. If you want to send him an email his address is: msdtech@msdignition.com

MSD tech

The original question from theformula, I would recommend clearing the computer by disconnecting the battery for 10-15 minutes. This will allow the computer to relearn with the MSD box in place. The most common problem on the EFI set up's is that they will go lean with the addition of the MSD box and the computer will not compensate for this. One thing that you have to remember is that it will generally take 30-60 miles for an EFI application to do this. These applications generally have zero starting problems with the box, so I would recommend trying the above. The other thing I would recommend in general, is opening the plug gap up .010-.015 over the stock gap. Use a standard plug one to two steps colder then stock(when it is time to change, but I would open the gap). Use a standard plug, stay away from "HYPE" plugs. These will generally have a tendency to run hotter and can cause pre-ignition problems. These plugs normally cost quite a bit more then a standard plug and will not perform any better with the MSD then a standard plug. One thing you have to remember is that you are upgrading the ignition, this is not NOS or a supercharger so horsepower gains will be there but they will not be 50+ type deal. A basic stock application will see gains across the board as far as performance, mileage, throttle response etc., which is accomplished by producing a more complete burn in the cylinder. The more things done to the vehicle the larger the gains will be. In a publication there was a comparison of a number of different ignition companies as well as stock. The car was a supercharged Mustang(Sorry, I am a GM guy also) making 7psi of boost. With the MSD ignition in place the motor averaged 9.08 ft-lbs and 5.33 HP more across the board and made a peak of 15 ft-lbs of torque and peak of 8 HP more then stock. Glad to say out of the ignitions tested we did produce the highest numbers compared to the other companies tested. This was done by an outside source and we had nothing to do with the test. If anyone would like to take a look at the article e-mail me a fax number and I will fax it over. In response to 1992 B4C 1LE, The 8226 is very comparable to the standard Blaster coil. This is a high output coil, it is just configured to fit in the stock location. In response to JRoy91RS, the MSD unit draws 1 amp per 1000 RPM. This is minimal and at low RPM's, the factory ignition draws more energy then the MSD box. We produce 4-5 times the energy at the plug compared to stock but do it with less draw on the system. This is one of the characteristics of a capacitive discharge ignition. So the unit will not cause the problems you described. Even if the unit shorted completely out it is impossible for the unit to take out the starter. The starter solenoid more then likely shorted out and would have been the cause the dead battery. The MSD gets blamed for various things but if hooked up correctly it can not do damage to the factory components. In response to Stell1579, high resistance in the secondary system will cause that problem. The 7 mm wires are fairly high in resistance and with a high output ignition there will be a back up of energy. This can cause premature cap and rotor failure. You should really look in to a good set of low resistance wires. When you install these use some dielectric grease on each end of the wire, and a very, very, very thin coat of it on each terminal of the cap. This will help cut down on this problem. I hope this clears up some of the concerns and If any of you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me at msdtech@msdignition.com I hope this has not offended anyone, I am just trying to address some of your concerns.

Thanks,

Joe

Tom Keliher

Damn! Well it sure is nice to see someone with intelligence respond to all the sh*t talkers!!

Tom (MSD 6-A going on 7 years and love it!) K.

------------------
FORMULA 350 TK
Southern California 3rd Generation F-Body Organization©

TomP

Joe LaPille is great! He's helped me out with questions many times before, and was one of the reasons I went with the MSD box-- I love companies with great customer service. The V6 crowd doesn't usually get that.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

91Bird305

I'm no sh*t talker you *****. I just said that I heard that those kinds of ignition kits were suppose to be for more heavly modified or slightly modified engines and not stock ones.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-Pablo's Free Mods-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone

http://hometown.aol.com/J007Golden/index2.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited October 12, 2000).]

Apeiron

My MSD6A just died on me yesterday, but it survived 15 years of abuse, so I think it's allowed to retire.

------------------
1984 Silver Z28, 383 cid 4 bolt, ARP Fasteners, 2 1/2" Cowl Induction Hood, 600 cfm Performer Carburetor, Torker II Intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H Cam, Magnum Roller Tip Rockers, MSD6AL Ignition, Blaster2 Coil, HEI Distributor w/ Adjustable Advance, 700R4, TransGo SK, 2.73:1 Limited Slip Dana 44, Terminator Headers, Custom 3" TIG Welded Stainless Exhaust, Flowmaster Muffler, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Oil Cooler

MSD tech

Apeiron,

If you want we can repair the unit. Send the box to:
MSD Ignition Attention Repair Department
12120 Ester Lama Dr Dock 5
El Paso, TX 79936
Maximum charge on a repair is $55.00, minimum charge is $19.00 in house time is about 10 working days. Make sure you include a good return address and phone number incase we need to contact you. This is less expensive then purchasing a new unit. If there are any problems we will contact you.

Apeiron

I've already replaced it with a new MSD6AL, it was time for an upgrade. I might fix the old one as a spare, or put it in another car.

------------------
1984 Silver Z28, 383 cid 4 bolt, ARP Fasteners, 2 1/2" Cowl Induction Hood, 600 cfm Performer Carburetor, Torker II Intake, Performer RPM Heads, XE268H Cam, Magnum Roller Tip Rockers, MSD6AL Ignition, Blaster2 Coil, Recurved HEI Distributor, 700R4, TransGo SK, 2.73:1 Limited Slip Dana 44, Terminator Headers, Custom 3" TIG Welded Stainless Exhaust, Flowmaster Muffler, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Oil Cooler

theformula

hey Aperion..ah..if you don't want it anymore I'll give you $2.50 for it. (C'mon man it doesn't work! I only have $7.66 in the bank!)

------------------
'92 Formula
305 TPI
Mods: SLP catback,SLP air foil,ported plenum,Crane AFPR (49psi),MSD6AL,homemade cold air,K&Ns,3:73s

Jed

Joe, I think it's great when representatives from aftermarket companies post here. I'd like some clarification on "HYPE" plugs, though. I know you don't want to name names and trash other companies, and I'm sure most people here will recognize something like a Splitfire plug as an overpriced piece of crap. But what about platimun plugs? A lot of the guys here like Bosch Platinum plugs. Can they be used effectively with an MSD ignition system? I'm just curious.

Jed
89 Formula 350

Stell1579

yes, i agree what kind of ignition wires, cap/rotor, and plugs are recomended w/ the 6a?

-Stell

------------------
1988 IROC 305TPI MINT!!
Mods= Accell SuperCoil, MSD 6A, Ported Plenum, No MAF Screans , K & N, 160 Thermostat+ Temp Switch
And Always Trying To Go Faster

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Now I know all about my 6AL. For the one guy I have taylor spiral pro 8mm wires Accel cap and rotor (checked the cap the other day and it doesnt even looked used!!)and regular AC Plugs

TomP

LOL, I like my Splitfires, have had no problems, and intend to keep using 'em. Flames will be ignored!


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

MSD tech

Stell1579 and Jed,

The platinum plugs are fine if you want to use them. Try and use the platinum tipped plug instead of the solid platinum plug(center core). I have seen these plugs over heat and boil the cement(glue) out and allow the center core to come out and touch the ground strap on the plug causing the cylinder to shut off. If you use a platinum plug it is highly recommended to run a colder plug to prevent pre-ignition due to the added heat these plugs retain. They do this normally to keep themselves clean which is great but can cause some problems especially in applications using power adders. The colder plug will keep this from happening. With out detailing specific styles, "HYPE" plugs are basically any plug with out a standard tip design. The problem is not with the design themselves, but more so with the style of the tip. If you look at these plugs they generally have very sharp edges thin electrodes etc., this dramatically increases the potential for pre-ignition. Use what ever style plug you chose. Use one to two steps colder then they call for normally. This will not help performance etc., but it lessens the chance of pre-ignition. I would recommend this for anyone using an aftermarket ignition box(regardless of manufacture). As far as wires, of course MSD. Not really any good suppression core wire will be fine. You want a low resistance wire that suppresses noise. Caps, try and use a cap that has brass terminals and are generally better quality.

MILT

Wow, someone who replies with both intelligence and professionalism...a refreshing sight. Thanks from all of us.

By the way MSDtech, what are the chances of MSD's warranty covering the repair of my 6A box that melted in a car fire?

Just kidding,

MILT

P J Moran

And just as I was about to post a question regarding coils...

How can I tell if my coil is "dying" (going bad - dropping in output)? It is the original one (with 220,000 miles on it). I was looking for an excuse to buy a new MSD coil, but felt it would be a waste of money if the factory unit was working properly. Would replacing even a perfectly functional factory coil help me any?

------------------
'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!

TomP

PJ, before I bought the MSD 6AL and Blaster SS coil, I had an Accel Supercoil replacing my GM one. With no other changes, the car pulled harder at higher rpm's.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

P J Moran

Thanks, Tom, but...
1) Mine has the later remote coil (non-HEI), and
2) I am trying to solve a part throttle "miss". My problem's not at high RPM - it's at cruise.




------------------
'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!

TomP

PJ, I'm not sure what you mean.

I -also- have the remote dual-connector coil distributor on my car. And -yes- that is an HEI system. The coil was moved from the cap to being remote, but it's still an HEI system.

You also asked if replacing a perfectly working GM coil would help you any, and I told you what it would change.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

CanadianBeast

MSD TECH

Why shouldn't I buy the Acell 300+ and why should I buy an MSD. Any Reply is much appreciated.

Jza

About any increases I noticed when I installed my 6AL, I noticed increased power in the midrange, and a better idle, but I attribute that more to the 8226 coil I installed at the same time than I do to the 6AL itself. I'm thinking my stock coil was just getting old. (It was in fact 11 years old!)

I'm still happy with the ignition system all around just because of the flexibility it gives me for future upgrades.

To MSDTech: how does getting wet effect the unit? Basically, I want to know if I can spray down my engine compartment and if it's okay in the rain (though I haven't had problems yet). I'm sure as long as I don't directly hit it, it'll be okay, but maybe you know for sure...?

P J Moran

I was under the impression that the term HEI applied to the coil-in-cap system only. If it has an external coil (which didn't come out until '87, I thought - yours is an '86) it was no different than other "regular" ignition systems. That's why I thought your response was not applicable to my situation. That is, just because you replaced your (so I thought) in-cap coil with an aftermarket unit, you can't assume I would get the same results on my (totally different) system. Also, I thought the Accel Supercoil was only available for the in-cap system (I had installed one in the '85 I used to have), thereby supporting my assumption. See? No flame - just explaining myself.


------------------
'87 IROC 5.7l TPI - original owner!

MSD tech

CanadianBeast, I sent you an e-mail directly to your address. I would prefer to keep this more technically oriented instead of sales oriented. We don't scan the message boards to sale our product, but to try and help solve problems and clarify function etc.. If anyone has any questions like that please feel free to e-mail me directly. Jza, I would have to say the box would have been the more noticeable increase over the coil by itself. The CD type units will produce substantially more current at the plug compared to the stock module and an aftermarket coil. The box will live in normal under hood conditions. This will include rain pressure washing etc.. Treat it like a distributor and try and not spray it directly and you will be fine. The backing plate on the unit should be toward the ground(angled is fine). This way if any water does get in the unit it drains out and does not sit on the board which is up top toward the MSD label. Do not seal the bottom plate to the unit this can cause problem with in itself.

sparks383iroc

P J,

I have the Accel Super coil for my '89 IROC. It is a remote coil just as TomP has mentioned. I can get you the part # if you're interested in getting one.

As far as I know, ignition system that GM put in from the early - mid 70's until the mid-late 90's is an HEI system (whether it is coil on cap or remote coil). Before HEI it was points, after, it was coil on plug/DIS/OPTISpark, whatever they called it. I'm not sure, but the OPTI might be called HEI.

Sparks a flyin'.

TomP

Sorry PJ, I misinterpreted the "tone" of your message.


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards

Jed

CanadianBeast,

I've had two 300+ systems. Both caused an ignition miss at cruise speeds. Accel tech (which sucks, by the way) told me this was a common problem among the Mustang crowd. Nice. Both went back to Accel first, then Summit for a refund.

Then I tried a Holley Annihilator which required a tach filter and a wiring harness and a bunch of other little stuff that pretty much doubled the price of the unit. It worked for a week and then my car started missing and hesitating. So I threw it in the box and sent it back to Summit.

With every system I followed the instructions exactly. I became fed up with ignition systems and used my credit at Summit to buy a Meziere electric water pump instead. When I try another ignition system, it will be an MSD.

theformula

amen, MSD kicks ***

------------------
'92 Formula
305 TPI
Mods: SLP catback,SLP air foil,ported plenum,Crane AFPR (49psi),MSD6AL,homemade cold air,K&Ns,3:73s,JET fan switch...SLP 1 5/8ths are coming...oh yes

oldblueZ

hey MSD guy, I have a question about instalation. I have a 1985 Z28 with the HEI ignition. I just got the box in the mail and don't understand the instructions to the point where I trust myself enought to install it myself. In the boards I have seen conflicting replies to whether or not you use the ignition module. The instructions say to bypass it so I assume that you are right, but what about the people that used the module, do they have something that I don't? Also, how do you actually bypass the module if you don't use it, could you send me a diagram of how to bypass the module, or something that will help me, please.

I have sent you the same thing in an email, I just figured that I would post here to share the info to everybody.

Thanks,
Jesse

------------------
85 Z28, 305 TPI A4
pretty stock
15.2@91mph
http://photos.yahoo.com/j_hougnon

MSD tech

Jesse,

You will leave the module in place. Look at the instruction for the GM HEI 5 or 7 pin instructions. This will be page 17 in the instruction booklet. Any jumpers etc. required are supplied in the parts bag to do the installation. You can also purchase part number 8875 which is a harness that will make the installation easier for the GM 5-7 pin internal coil applications.

Thanks,

Joe

burntblues

resurrection!!

I was just wondering where everyone has placed their box. I should be getting the unit tommorow and was thinking under hood somewhere, but there really isn't a good spot. A lot of you have said that you've put it under the dash. Where? Does anyone have pictures? How difficult is it to mount and run the wires from under there? All help is appreciated,
Mike

dream02transam

I put my box on the pass side under the hood just behind the strut tower. I put one sheet metal screw and tie wraps on the remaining holes right to the hoses or other stuff to tie it too. Its secure and very close to the coil so .... less wireing. I put the power cable to the batt junction block so I didnt have to run it across to the batt.

CEP89

I'm very happy with my MSD 6al. The car runs smoother and throttle response is better. I put mine on the driver's side in front of the washer bottle and behind the carbon canister sideways. I had to move the washer bottle a bit, but it was the only place I could get it to fit.