2kickassbirds

iTrader: (3)

I hate bosch o2's and spark plugs!

ksrammstein

WHY? I have always thought it was good german stuff...

2kickassbirds

iTrader: (3)

no it sucks

25THRSS

ok, now tell us why

ta84-355

I guess this guy just wants to start some sort of flame. I´m living in Sweden and most of the european cars have bosch ignitions and efi related parts. I´ve been driving Volvo, VW Golf, Audi 80, and my current Audi S4 - and all of these cars has had some BOSCH parts. Not many of them has had any problem with the BOSCH stuff either.

An ignition module can wear out, so what - USD $30 later and it´ll hold for 10+ years again.

About the O2 sensor - if your car has some sort of problem with antifreeze getting into the exhaust, too fat mixture etc. ANY O2 sensor will wear out. Unfortunatelly this guy didn´t want to give us any information.

I wouldn´t even consider buying any other brand parts to replace my BOSCH parts, unless it was to compleately rebuild the engine control system. After all, if BOSCH stuff makes a Porsche run, it can make my Audi or Volvo run.

/Anders

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree with Anders, but only on European cars!
I too use Bosch items on all of my cars and bikes, BUT I found out the hard way, Bosch doesn't work for American cars!!
My Firebird will eat Bosch +4 sparkplugs within a couple of hundred miles!!
So for my Pontiac I use AC Delco and Accel parts, no Bosch!!

jmd88iroc-z

I use BOSCH o2, battery, and plugs on my Iroc-z. haven't had any problems so far.

pat12spe

Well, first of all. You CANNOT use platinum plugs if you have an aftermarket ignition system. It will just eat them up. For everyone else who doesn't have an MSD or Accel, bosch will work great. I'm tired of these flaming threads where people don't know what they are talking about. Of course it will eat up your plugs after a couple hundred miles. If you don't believe me, go get a different type of platinum plug, I'm sure there are others out there. See how long that lasts. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood cause I just got scammed on ebay and need to take it out on someone.

89Warbird

I use Bosch +4's and have been for years now. I use a Crane HI-6S ignition and coil and I have no problems with the plugs at all, work great and I get 21 mpg. If I ever get motivated and replace the injectors I bet it will pick up another couple MPG.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

To Pat 12 Spe,

Please explain your theorie!
B.T.W. European Bosch +4 or NOT platinum!!
So there goes your story!!
Besides that , my ignition is almost stock, just Accel coil, wires and cap and rotor!
It still eats Bosch plugs, so now I use Delco Rapidfire nr.2 and everything is fine
And yes, I do use Bosch Silver plugs in my Ducati motorbike, Bosch +4 in my Alfa Romeo GTV-6 and in my Fiat Palio 1.6!
So I'm realy a Bosch addept, only not in my Pontiac!!!

pat12spe

If you read on the bosch website, it will explain not to use any type of precious metal sparkplug with an aftermarket ignition. I assume this also refers to silvers. Don't quote me on this, but I also believe it is on the bosch boxes that you can buy in pep boys or any parts store like that.

89Warbird

I have never before heard of a problem using Bosch plugs with aftermarket ignitions and their website does NOT have any warning to that effect. Furthermore they have a performance guarantee for their plugs in which they will refund your purchase price if you are unhappy with them. Under the terms of this agreement they never mention aftermarket ignitions.

ksrammstein

Why would european engines and american engines handle bosch stuff differently? An engine is and engine...its not like ours run on different fuel ratios or compression ratios anymore...

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, the Bosch Platinums turned out to be a complete failure in Europe some years ago.
Driving conditions, fuel quality (like leaded fuel!!) higher reving smaller engines etc. etc.
Bosch took the Platinums of the market, and they are only available on special demand from old stock now!
State of the art nowedays are Bosch Irridium plugs with just one single electrode.
The Plus 4 is called Super 4 in Europe and does use 4 electrodes but no platinum, they are the plugs I use in my daily drivers, the Silver Sport plug is for high temperatur (air cooled) racing engines, like my Ducati motorbike.
And I stick with good old AC Delco for my American car!!

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

that doesent make sense that an aftermarket ignition would eat platinum plugs considering new cars with coil on plug alot of times use platinum plugs from the factory and the c.o.p. systems are just as hot as most aftermarket ignitions if not hotter

eatmydust

So if I want MSD ignition stuff in my car, what kind of plug do I need. I saw another post and it said split fire plugs (which is what I put in, yes I was stupid) won't work with MSD

25THRSS

Just a standard copper plug. Copper conducts better anyways. Platinum is more for longevity than anything else.

OMINOUS_87

NGK for plugs and O2s.

IROCZEKE

I've got bosch plat 4 prong's in my l98 right now and have had them in their for a year and a half. My engine idles a little funny though, so i'm throwin in the ac delco rapid fire's in. From what i hear it will make the engine run ALOT smoother. Why do they call them rapid fire's?

cronsformula350

we have bosch platinums in all our cars except for our 68 gto, b/c were building a new motor right now thats going to be in the 650+ hp range, so buying +4's would be a waste of money, since they won't work with aluminum heads, and for every hundred more hp you add over stock, you need to run one heat range cooler of a plug, to eliminate the chance of detonation, and when you add about 300 more hp than stock, you need cooler plugs, lol.

I have them in my L98 formula, and had no problems, and since I'm building a wicked upper end for it and what not, I'm going to put those +4's in my 87 iroc-z. But I'll use bosch in my new victor jr 23* heads too. Bosch makes great ****, anyone who knocks them needs to get there ***** kicked in.

website: http://members.cardomain.com/cronsformula

cronsformula350

maybe if your mental, or have more issues than korn?

NGK plugs are jap, and are fine for bikes, but I prefer an american plug in my american car!!!

Chrome

I think I would make sure "AC Delco" plugs are "Made in America" before I dig myself in too deep. You might be suprised who the manufacturer actually is...

cronsformula350

ac delco is just the name now, there isn't really a ac delco anymore, just the name. I bet the ac delco stuff is made in mexico, malaysia, or korea.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Most Bosch plugs are made in India!!

junkyarddog

the BOSH +4 are very hot plugs,

BOSH = german/european cars

NGK = Japanese cars

AC Delco/Motorsport/Champion ect.. = American cars
(some ameraican cars use forien parts, this mainly applies to thirdgens)


when was the last time you've ever heard of a volkswagen driver swithching to AC Delco plugs?

would I put AC Delco or Accel plugs in my Corolla or 3KGT? No, that would seem pretty stupid.

It's all marketing the plugs work because they are hotter and give a jump off the line, the regular Delco or Accel 'U' groove work just as good and cost alot less.

an O2 sensor is a whole different animal, all it does is change the voltage that the computer senses when there is changes in the A/F ratio in the exaust pipes.....that has so little to do with the direct function the plugs have inside the cylinders. Ok, some might argue with that, the way it's worded....but you know what I mean...hopefully.

Bosh sensors are fine, Bosch makes great relays too. Bosch has some of the most reliable stuff in the autoparts market. There is no reason why they can't manufacture a plug that will work in an American motor, but as a general rule: European plugs are for European cars.

OMINOUS_87

Anyone who makes a recomendation agaisnt NGK for any reason that is not technical is only spreading misinformation.

NGK is quickly becoming the benchmark plug for performance enthusiasts, this is in American cars as NGK has been the benchmark in Asian performance applications for a very long time.

Anyone needing NGK plugs for American applications need look no further then NAPA as NAPA carries a very wide variety NGK product in stock.

Meatikis

i believe it's because theyre supposed to fire multiple times on the combustion stroke. i dont see how they expect to accomplish this though.

AM Racer

I quit using Bosch plugs years ago. They've failed miserably with MSD or just about any other high output ignitions. Typically what fails is the internal resistor under higher current loads. Believe it or not, one of the most reliable plugs so far has been the 1.99 NGK V tip.

OMINOUS_87

This is not at all hard to believe, NGK has one of the toughest plugs on the market.

One of our board sponsors, Thunder Racing, agrees as well. Thunder Racing stocks and races with NGK plugs exclusively. I am not saying to go out and jump off a cliff because Thunder Racing says so, but an example is an example.

I personally have used NGK long before I have ever heard of Thunder Racing. But for all you bench racers out there who need to read it on the internet to belive it, check out Thunder's website, they have some pretty fast cars in their stable.

cronsformula350

what is this internal resistor you speak of? I've never read about that, not even on bosch's own site. I believe what may not help the life of the plugs, isn't the aftermarket ignition entirely, its the mulitple sparks, but inherintly, the design of the bosch, by its insulator design, it cleans up faster, but the only damage I have seen on them with over 75,000 miles on them, is the coating on the insulator, on the regular platinum plugs, seems to have worn off, on the opposite side of the electrode.

Aside from that, I love bosch plugs, for reliability and longevity.

I run NGK's in my hondas and kawasaki's, they last for a while, and eventually foul. I'd still use them over champion, after a champion plug we had, melted a forged slug in our johnson outboard, within no time at all. Quality control over there, isn't up to my expectations, and the 6K$ check we got back from them to repair our boat motor, proved there neglegence.

AM Racer

www.sparkplug.com is another good site for plug info.
Resistor plugs have an internal resistor. No other way around it. When it goes south, current follows the path of least resistance if the ignition has the drive to get it there. Generally down the side of the porcelain and depending on your wires, through a boot.

junkyarddog

I never said there was anything wrong with NGK...I use them in two of my cars. Platinum NGKs in one... -$ -$ -$


from what I've seen, NGKs are pretty much solid copper internally.

Once a motor is modified, it's game for all kinds of stuff and I won't argue NGKs either.

For stock applications...I still believe it's best just to use what the motor came with, unless anyone wants to inform me otherwise. I'm listening..(or reading).

AM Racer

I wouldn't argue the point that on a stocker, what came in it works about the best. When mods are made, then it's a whole new ball game.
In response to another post, yes NGK is Japanese...and they work flawlessly.
I also like the part that I can work out my own plug number, heat range, tip style and hex size since NGK publishes the break down of their numbering system. Sure helps when I build a motor.

OMINOUS_87

...

OMINOUS_87

I have seen +4s melt down when being pushed by an MSD box.

Also seen em misfire out of the box in a VW 1.8T motor. The dealer then reocomended against Bosch +4s as a matter of standing policy.

Not in my car though, my thoughts are rooted well beyond marketing campaigns.

scottland

the only thing i don't get why people buy into the bosch +4 crap is, the spark is only going to jump one gap, the one with the least resistance, not 4.

AM Racer

The average purchaser isn't supposed to know that.

cronsformula350

its funny you mention that, because what you say would sound to be logical, except on the dyno, bosch +4's make 4-6 more hp than a split fire, accel u groove, or a plain platinum bosch. Dyno's don't lie my friend.

when the bosch +4's melted down, I bet you weren't running a cooler plug with the ignition, and if they melted, it most likely was from a motor on the edge of detonation, and not the igntion, hotter ignition will escalate other problems, and amplify them.

AM Racer

A "hotter" ignition has nothing to do with the operating temperature of the porcelain. Cylinder temps created by modifications will.
Platinum thin cores were designed to contend with weaker sparks and deterioration of electrodes over extended periods. If I remember correctly, the Bosch was originally designed for Porsche turbo's as a way to extend intervals between tune ups.
Higher output ignitions can kill an internal resistor depending on the type of plug chosen which will then misfire. There are 2 different types of resistor depending on application.
Any plug when new will show higher HP readings on a dyno for the first few hours until erosion of the electrode sets in. Afterwards, they're back on a level playing field.

OMINOUS_87

LOL, thats gotta be the funniest thing I have heard in some time now.

For all you folks that are not exactly sure on some of terms being thown around here.

HOT IGNITION: A hot ignition will drive spark harder to the combustion chamber minimizing spark loss. A hot ignition will not develop an increase in combustion chamber operating temps.

COLD PLUG or HOT PLUG: Pending on the motor, blower or NA or N2O, ideal combustion chamber temps range from 600*-900*. A hotter ignition will NOT increase these temps. However elevated cylinder pressure will quickly raise these temps. An average temp change from one heat range to another, up or down, will allow chamber temps to change by ~60*-90*. Changing heat ranges is needed to tune a modded motor.

To disspell misinformation that was put out earlier. You really do not want to change the heat range of a stock motor. If you run a plug that is hotter than stock you will most likely succeed in driving your motor into preignition and knock retard, you will not enjoy power gains.

If your motor is stock, then run a stock range plug. If you are modded then start getting into cold plugs and research on this topic, dont buy into the hype that floats around here sometimes.

cronsformula350

I'm sorry but I'll agree with some of that on not some of that. Any time you have a modified motor putting out more hp, u may need to run a cooler plug.

Every 100 more hp than stock that you add to your motor, you will need to run a spark plug one heatrange cooler to make more power.

25THRSS

This is pretty much full of crap. They don't make any more power and if anything, make less. BTW, MSD will tell you not to run any type of precious metal plugs with their ignitions.

OMINOUS_87

Duh, didnt you read my post?

That 100 hp number is a huge guestimate as well. There are alot of factors that go into determining chamber temps other than just hp. Again I wil repeat that a hotter ignition is not one of them, your post earlier was complete

It could be very well required to drop a heat range on a plug for a 50hp gain pending the details that were put into the buildup.

25THRSS

Heat range has a lot more to do with cylinder pressures and temperatures than hp. I have almost 200 more flywheel hp than stock on my LS1 and I'm using the stock plug.

cronsformula350

yes compression has alot to do with it, but with a stock compression, 100 hp is the average gain, at which you should swap in a cooler plug.

The detonation issue is also more of an issue, on motors with less than a zero deck, because when you have a motor with a zero or just under zero deck, it becomes less octane sensitive, and no longer has that tendency to detonate.

OMINOUS_87

Again you have jumbled the facts.

Octane sensitivity is affected by total quench height, not deck height alone. If you are built for zero deck height and run a .015 shim head gasket you will slam a pistom right into your head. However a zero deck height with a .039 or .041 Felpro performance gasket will yeild a total quench that is within .035-.045, which is optimum total quench height to fight off detonation relative to octane rating.

GM factory iron head motors are built on deck height of 9.020 with a .015 shim gasket to keep proper quench.

cronsformula350

:hail: thanks chief, you really cleared it up for me

please....

OMINOUS_87

I hope so, as you seem to be very confused on alot of topics you post about.

cronsformula350

I was joking, lol. Not being serious, I'm not confused, if I was I wouldn't have worked on close to 20 thirdgens, and 5 fourth gens, and I wouldn't have people coming to me to work on there cars. , and I wouldn't be building a ten second formula either.

OMINOUS_87

Well, whatever it is with you. Throwing around inacurate information or information that isnt complete is not funny. There is always the posibility that someone reads what you type and they follow it only to damage their motor.