J's86ROC

Don't ask me why but I would like to stick with my 305TPI in my 86 IROC. I just want to prove that a 305 can be a performer too. If ford(sorry I used a 4-letter f-word) can do it with a 302 then dammit we can do it with a 305. I'll tell you what I am thinking about doing and I'm open to suggestion for a better part and I would also like to know what I would be looking at in 1/4 mile times, and hp figures. I know it's impossible to be exact I'm just looking for educated guesses.
Here we go; 86 IROC 305TPI/700R4 3.42Posi
-Mild cam, not sure which yet, pls suggest 1
-Ported intake, base and runners
-Hi flow MAF
-World Products S/R torquer 305 heads
-1.6 Roller Rockers
-9.5 compression
-160 thermostat (already have)
-Hypertech stage 2 chip (got that too)
-Flowmaster cat back (got it)
-Throttle body airfoil (got it)
-Headers, hi flow Y pipe and cat.
-Maybe a hi-flow throttle body
Like I said I'm looking for ideas and suggestions. Thanks for any info and help.
Jason

------------------
Jason Lodder; 86 IROC-Z, 305 TPI/700R4, Flowmaster Exhaust, Hypertech Thermomaster Chip, K&Ns, Throttle body airfoil.

86Street

well i dont know too much.i also have a 84 z28 with a 305.but i dont like it at all.also check ur e mail.a 327 has so much more power but it is the same block.with a 305 with all of what u have you should have maybe high 11's low 12's.its just a guess though.
allen

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Jason,

My mods are too extensive to list here. If you'd like a copy, e-mail me. It might give you some more ideas on what to do.

------------------
Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
Former Paxton (6-psig) with 50-hp nitrous: 12.043 @ 112.86 mph.
ATI D1SC (10-psig): 12.056 @ 116.62 mph.
All stats are altitude corrected for 3,100 feet using NHRA's Altitude Correction Table.

http://willie.camaro-firebird.org/

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

RacingGreenSC

The 305 is a great engine. Extremely light (rotateing mass wise) and free reving. When it was first introduced is the '67 Z it made 380 hp on the stock headers. Between the 305 and the 350, I would chose the 305 for a street/road race engine, but not a drag car: you need cubes for that.

------------------
Colin Finkle (Temp. Registration)
'87 Camaro Sport Coupe, 305 V8

mrr23

it was the 302 in the '67 z28 4.00" bore x 3.00" stroke. the 305 wasn't out until the early '70's 3.76 bore x 3.48 stroke.



[This message has been edited by mrr23 (edited November 11, 2001).]

mrr23

the 327 shares the same block as the 302 and 350.the 305 shares the same crankshaft as the 350. no other block has the same 3.87 bore.

killer305

iTrader: (1)

what did you guys watch car and driver also this morining

------------------
90 RS 305 tbi, 4 3/4" cowl Hood, Edelbrock TES headers, Flowmaster exhaust, Crane roller cam, comp roller rockers, vortec heads/intake, ported tbi, w/new injectors, MSD probillet Distributer/ coil, 1 inch tbi spacer, air foil, 14x4 k&n flat base air cleaner, Rebuilt 700r4 w/ B&M shift kit, B&M Megashifter, 3.23 posi, 2 12 RF's with mtx amp, top of line alpine cd player, soon to have 90-91 gfx, z-28 wing, new paintjob, rims, and all new lowered suspension.

88IROCs

Production...CID...Bore...Stroke...Rod Jnl/Main Jnl.....Deck Ht...Comp. Ht...Rod Length....Bore Ctr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1955 - '57...265...3.750..3.000......2.000/2.300..........9.025.......1.800..........5.703............4.400
1957 - '68...283...3.876..3.000......2.000/2.300..........9.025.......1.800..........5.703............4.400
1962 - '67...327...4.000..3.250......2.000/2.300..........9.025.......1.675..........5.703............4.400
1968 - '69...327...4.000..3.250......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.675..........5.703............4.400
1967...........302...4.000..3.000......2.000/2.300..........9.025.......1.675..........5.703............4.400
1968 - '69...302...4.000..3.000......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.800..........5.703............4.400
1968 - ........350...4.000..3.480......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.560..........5.703............4.400
1968 - '73...307...3.876..3.250......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.675..........5.703............4.400
1970 - '80...400...4.125..3.750......2.100/2.650..........9.025.......1.560..........5.565............4.400
1974 - '76...262...3.671..3.100......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.750..........5.703............4.400
1976 - ........305...3.736..3.480......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.560..........5.703............4.400
197? - '8?....267...3.500..3.480......2.100/2.450..........9.025.......1.560..........5.703............4.400

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited November 12, 2001).]

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

J, for modifying a 305, you're on the right track. I picked the Crane Compucam 2050 (highest lift non-roller in the Summit list of this cam). I just got it running but not rolling yet, it sounds pretty healthy, though. You should be able to stick with 1.5:1 rockers with that cam, although the 1.6's would be a good quick-change performance boost.

The World heads really need bowl work (pocket porting). Whether you go beyond that is up to you. Use a 350 head gasket when you mount them. I used the Felpro rubber-coated steel shim on mine (factory was a steel shim, if that's any hint). Also upgrade the springs and retainers (and seals) for higher lift while you're at it. I got mine from Competition Products unassembled for about $650 shipped.

You probably won't need anything bigger than a 52mm TB. AFPR a must for tuning.

See my post on "Tip for improving Hooker 2055's" on the exhaust forum if you go with that brand. But, you do need headers of some type, and a high-flow cat (which you already know).

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4 (restalled TC). Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax cam. ZZ4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster. 2.93 limited slip, Spohn SFCs. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited November 12, 2001).]

88IROCs

Just a note on pricing:

RaceSearch.Com has the 305 Torquer heads at the following prices:
pre-'87 Unassembled = $237.50 ea
pre-'87 Assembled = $346.70 ea

World Castings lists the assembled heads with these parts:
Manley "Street-Flo" 1 pc valves - undercut and swirl-polished
Manley 7° locks and retainers
3/8" screw-in rocker-arm studs
1.250" single springs - max. lift = 0.560"

For the money, I don't think you could assemble the complete heads for cheaper yourself. If you do some more research, you might find them at a lower cost than RaceSearch.Com.

cort351w

You do know that the ford 302 (and the chevy 302, for that matter) makes its cubes completely differently than the 305 does. Like it shows in the chart, the 305 has a small bore and relatively long stroke. This is why the 305 has as so much torque, but doesn't rev up (the tpi complements this). On the other hand, the ford 302 revs to what, like 6500 stock, while the chevy 302 (I am pretty sure) went even higher than that.

In the new motor trend, they take an LS1 and use a different crank (they don't say which one) and make it into a 302. The engine revved to 7000 and made 350 hp AT THE REAR WHEELS! Compare this to the 280 hp that the LS1 (regular 346 form) put out at the rear wheels of the '02 SS tested and compared to a mustange cobra in the same issue (of motor trend).

When my 305 (has tpi and like the rest of the car, a 91 formula WS6, has only 20,0xx actual miles) breaks down, I'm going to put either a 302 LS1 or a 302 LT1 (same strategy, and there is actually a post about this in the tech board at sethirdgen.org, or maybe it's .com). Anyway, I figure that since even my 305 has more than enought torque to overwhelm the (brand new michellin pilot H4) tires in first stock, and I plan tosupe up my engine. Now I love getting slammed back in the seat by an engine overflowing with torque, but I'm just saying, you don't lose much going to the 302 and you can only get so much torque to the pavement.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The reason to get them unassembled is so you can do the bowl work. Why pay for assembly if you are just going to take them apart to put the die grinder to them?

I would assume that the unassembled price you quote is for the bare castings. The price from CP assembled adds $40/head or about $650 plus shipping (about $700 - close to your figure).

I think you should also check the data on the springs. What World says is the max lift with a single spring is .560". They aren't saying that is the max lift with the springs supplied with the heads.

Cort, a stock 5.0 will rev to about 5200. The 4.6 is in the 6k's.

You can make a 305 rev. You just need to match the parts to make it do it.

88IROCs

57,

I didn't intend my last post to be taken as a pissing contest, merely as a comparison of what's out there. In fact, there may be a speed shop out there that can beat both of the prices we mentioned. However, when someone lists a head as 'unassembled', it means the same thing as a "bare casting"(though most bare castings include the valve seats and pushrod and valve guides). At any rate, I encouraged J's86ROC to do some research to find the best price for what he is after.

I can see one good reason to buy assembled heads over their unassembled counterparts: price. If you add the retail price of springs, retainers, locks, ra studs and valves to the cost of the unassembled heads, it will cost you a lot more than just buying the assembled heads. Once you have bought the assembled heads, there's nothing stopping you from applying some high-speed carbide lovin' to the heads but, when you're done you'll have the added bonus(above the price savings) of knowing you have all the parts you need to complete the heads(well o.k., you'll still need rocker arms, studs, gaskets, etc.,). But the there's no way you or I can compete with World Castings, who buy their parts in bulk quantity and for wholesale.

I think you should also check the data on the springs. What World says is the max lift with a single spring is .560". They aren't saying that is the max lift with the springs supplied with the heads.

Actually, I'll let you check the data:

World Castings
You'll need the Acrobat viewer for your browser, or you can download the file and view through the regular Acrobat program. Scroll down the file until you come to the listings for the 305 Torquer heads. They list the springs supplied(and installed) on the assembled heads as follows:

1.250 diameter/ 100 lbs press(closed)/0.560" max. lift.

Their data,... not mine! Keep in mind these springs are for non-roller cams and ask yourself how many 305's are going to use a cam approaching 0.560" lift? Now, I agree you don't often see 1.250" dia. springs rated for that much lift. But on the other hand, maybe World Castings knows more about springs than I do(and possibly more than you do)! At any rate, if you want to dispute the data, take it up with them.

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited November 13, 2001).]

J's86ROC

Guys,
Thanks so much for all your input. Some of the things you mentioned I have already thought about. As far as the bore/stroke numbers on the various motors, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I am aware of it. I guess what I'm really getting at is that so many people overlook a well built, smaller displacement motor. Don't anybody take this the wrong way, but some people don't think any power can be made without at least 350cid. I love the 350 motor, and when it comes down to all out drag racing, there is no replacement for displacement.
I just want to build a reliable, well matched, setup for my IROC. I would love to go all out, but there's only one little problem for me. I want to be able to keep the scales tipped to the side of driving instead of up on jackstands with the hood up. My ultimate goal is to build a reliable 305, that consists of parts matched to my RPM range. Also I want this to be reliable. Anyway like I was getting ready to say a few sentences ago, I'm just afraid if I go all out with it I will either end up hurting the car and/or myself (I have a bad habit of pushing a car to the limit). With too much power it would be to easy to cross the line, and do some damage. You know the whole power/speed hungry thing. I have a 64 Chevelle that is going to be the all out screamer. I just want to be able to have some fun with the ROC, kick a little *** , and know that I can count on it to get me anywhere I need to go. All of your advice has been helpful, and when I get ready to order parts in a couple of months, I will get back with you all and get some ideas on different brands you have gone with.
I'm sorry this is long, but I know that if I want the best advice I have to be specific with what I want. Also I didn't mean to insult anyone with any comments here. I have been working on cars for quite a few years, however I'm new to the whole ECM, PROM, Fuel Injection scene. I'm trying to catch up on the last 16 years of GM engines. Thanks again,
Jason

------------------
Jason Lodder; 86 IROC-Z, 305 TPI/700R4, Flowmaster Exhaust, Hypertech Thermomaster Chip, K&Ns w/baffles removed, Throttle body airfoil.
"The reason most import drivers only focus on looking fast is so they can sit there staring at their car and dream about it being fast, because there's no way for them to match American muscle."

[This message has been edited by J's86ROC (edited November 13, 2001).]

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

88 - Just trying to pass on some info based on my research, not be pushy. Sorry if I came off that way. I was impressed with Competition Products' approach, since they tend to "derate" products - if a spring is "rated" at .560" lift, for instance, they recommend keeping lift below .510" for the sake of durability. They also talked me out of Proform roller rockers, because of the lift I was going to have, recommending roller tips to help keep me in budget but maintain durability. They accepted $40 less in sales to ensure a happy customer. I respect that.

Oh, the "unassembled" prices I quoted were for an "unassembled kit". The bare castings were $460/pair plus about $50 shipping. I have not seen anyone's listings that equated "unassembled" with "bare". As for unassembled vs. assembled, I repeat that everyone, including World themselves, recommend bowl work, so saving the cost of assembly when you buy the parts makes sense if you're going to do this important part anyway.

I will agree with you that one should shop around, as it has been over 6 months since I picked up my parts. Prices do change, and if you have a favorite supplier, they will often match someone else's price.

J, since you're trying to put together a reliable daily driver (as am I), look very carefully at what you're being offered. It's better to spend a little more to upgrade certain parts before things go together than have to come back 6 months after getting it running to replace things that have broken because you got on it once.


BTW, that Powermax cam idles as smoothly as the 143k miles stock LG4 did when I last drove it. Exhaust fumes aren't as bad, (probably the old heads and cat), and throttle response is much crisper. I didn't touch the chip (already had the coil but not the module), but of course this is all with the "dumb" CC carb. TPI may respond differently.

88IROCs

Five7,

Do you have any info on where I can get Competition Products catalog. There's a dead link on, their site, to download their catalog in .pdf format. The link to place an order is also DOA. And the two email requests I made(about 6 mos. ago) for a printed catalog went unanswered.

I've heard good things about them, but it seems they haven't quite grasped the concept of online sales yet. I am always looking for a cheaper place to buy parts(a side-effect of having between 3 - 5 vehicles in my care constantly). I am actually starting to give serious consideration to getting the 305 Torquers for my truck(27 mpg lately, but with the brute acceleration of an 80 year old on a walker ).

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited November 13, 2001).]

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I downloaded their pdf back in April, but you're right, the link seems to be dead right now.

Their site does have an active link for requesting a catalog. It says, "You can contact us by phone at 920-233-2023. Fax your request to us at 920-233-1355. Email your request to us catalog@competitionproducts.com."

A free catalog take 4-5 weeks to receive; send them $2 and they'll get it out the same day.