five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I hoisted the engine/trans into the engine compartment Friday night. It's back sitting on the floor.

Some discoveries:

It's a good idea to remove the starter, windshield wiper motor, and throttle body before you try this.

That nifty AC relocation using the Sanden compressor - looks like it's going to hit the strut tower. I had the hose nipples facing out, it may fit if I point them down. We'll see.

And, the oil pan hits the back of the K-member. Not even close to fitting from what I could see. Perhaps if the engine was lowered straight down, but it sure didn't look like it.

My options now:

1) Bang on the crossmember until there's clearance. I tried whacking it with the sledge before I pulled the engine completely back out, didn't budge it (knocked off a lot more dirt, though, and found that 5/8" combo wrench that had disappeared). Cutting/welding is probably the better solution.

2) Notch the K-member and put the factory AC back on. I suppose I could try one more time after #1 above and see if the Sanden fits when the engine is bolted in the mounts, but if it doesn't, that means I'll have to pull the engine out again to notch it. Or, just give up on AC.

Or,
3) Get a tubular K-member (just what I need, something to spend more money on).

screeminchicken

iTrader: (2)

since you have a hoist...why dont you try removing the K-member and install it outside the car to the engine and go thru the bottom of the car.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I have considered that. But, it's a cherry picker, and the legs get in the way of the engine/transmission/cradle on a dolly.

birdonnos

what mounts did you end up using i am gathering parts for my swap and will be dropping it in within the next few weeks

Mike Massey

iTrader: (8)

I would support the engine with the hoist drop the k member out and clearance for AC AND OIL PAN . LEAST EFFORT MAX gains least cash

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I used the Spohn mounts. It's not their fault, can't put them any further back without the heads hitting the firewall. I have only recently heard about tight clearance between the oil pan and crossmember, but this is beyond tight. An inch off the back should do the trick.

The engine/transmission are back on the garage floor. I can do the notching/clearancing with the crossmember in the car. Don't have to fuss with the front springs that way.

cam-

Its very very tight. I used one of those engine tilt mechanisms from Princess auto ( Harbor freight is the same down there ) and even then it took three of us to put it in all as one and get it passed the k member. I also recall now that my nephew had to remove the wiper motor as well. We had one guy on the floor, two up top, the engine tilted as much as possible and the guy below had to grab the tail shaft and tilt it more. I did this with an overhead crane though so a bit different than with an engine hoist so I cant say for sure. All said and done I have enough room to slide a piece of cardboard in between the pan and k member but thats it. Using poly bushings and no rubbing.

The notched AC is pretty slick it goes fast and it looks very clean all said and done if your keeping AC this method has my vote.

Tubular K's are nice but they look too flimsy for street duty.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was using a tilt sling. That worked until the damper was past the radiator mount. Then it got in the way of the cowl (same when stabbing the 350/TH700 in the other car), so I put a floor jack under the tailshaft mount to hold that end up, and only had the hoist hooked to the front. No movement of the tailshaft would allow the oil pan to get by the K-member.

I'm going to go out and chop off a little now. New pack of cut-off wheels, new dust mask and safety goggles, I'm ready to rip.

J's T/A

iTrader: (2)

Did you try and lift the back of the car up in the air? I have no experience with LSx, but I always lift the back up on ramps and it gives a better angle to put the engine and tranny in together.. sorry if stating the obvious....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The whole car is about 18" off the ground. The tailshaft could go wherever it pleased (except up).

Got the chunk cut out of the back. Cut the edges off of the piece I cut out, I'll weld it back to the front of the new slot, then box the ends.

birdonnos

can you post a pic i would like to do this myself to save some time when installing the engine, i am going to pickup my 4l60e tommorrow and bolt it to the lq9 and get ready to drop her in, so i would like to see what you cut away.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I intended to, but didn't have the camera with me when I was doing the work.

Left is the notch, middle is the piece I cut out with the flanges cut off, right is the piece that will be welded back in. The oil pan is 8-1/2" wide, I made the notch just over 9" wide.

Of course, I have no idea if this is the right amount. Based on what it looked like and what others are saying here, it should be.

cam-

That looks ample to me. Mind you I think if I was so inclined I might taper the rear of the k a little I dont think it will affect strength and it will probably aid in getting the pan passed it. Perhaps hammer it down, weld the piece in your pic on, then grind to flush the excess? Should work either which way I was just thinking aloud is all

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was thinking something similar last night. A triangle is more rigid than a box.

Maybe weld the piece in, then hammer, then finish weld/grinding.

birdonnos

what did you use to cut it out. i picked up my rebuilt trans today, so now i have to pull the tpi out. all parts are a go for my swap now just gotta jump in looks like i will be following your threads close.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This, supplied by two 2-hp compressors tied together, one 11 gallon the other 20 gallon. I need a better compressor.

birdonnos

nice looks like ill break my grinder out too cause i am going to be using the same mounts also, i look forward to seeing if the motor goes in easy now with it cutout.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oh, the grinder has been close by, trust me. . .

Got both cut-outs done and the back nearly boxed in. Remembered that stick welders don't do so well welding upside down.

Hope to finish the AC notch tomorrow.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I decide not to do any banging, just boxed the sides at an angle.

Not the prettiest beads in the world, but should suffice.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I think the oil pan notch is fine.

I worked on the AC notch, getting it boxed back in. I used photos from TGO as a guide for the opening. After I got it all welded up, I looked at the photos again, and it didn't look like I got it far enough out. Retrieved the factory AC stuff from the storage unit, mounted it, took some measurements - looks like it needs to go another 1/2" out.

Oh, well, I can always repaint it. . .

Mike Massey

iTrader: (8)

you go you fabricator!! im impressed nothin like ingenuity!!! lol is that spelled right?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Eh...not sure I agree with how close they make those mounts. I have enough room to get my hand back behind my heads. Which means there is enough room to move the mounts back enough to give pan clearance. Thats one of the thing that annoyed me about my swap.

Ill be doing something similar to the notch you made. I already have mine notched and boxed for the a/c compressor...so when I cut into mine for the pan, Im going do alittle reinforcing here and there. Keep that sucker strong.

Good work on the notching, you should have PLENTY of space now.

Also...a cherry picker and a couple ramps is all you need to drop the car down onto the motor/trans/k-member Ive done it that way half a dozen times now. Only way Ill ever r&r an f-body motor. Even if its just for motor work...trans is coming with it. No question.

Good luck!

J.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I suppose I should say that I'd have to do major shuffling in the garage to drop the k-member. Handling the springs is mostly why I've shied away from it. Maybe I should reconsider.

I didn't have mine fully installed, but it didn't look like there was any room left behind the heads. Not sure of firewall changes between the years, either, other than details like the clutch cable vs. master cylinder.

I'm going to take another shot at the AC notch tomorrow. If I could only get it through my thick skull to do things in proper order - measure, then cut. . .

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, "that" is spelled correctly. But, it's "nothing". . .

I was thinking as I was grinding away weld globs that if I had better equipment, I might be able to do some really nice work. But, hard to justify things like a $500 welder you use a couple of times a year. Prefer spending it on go-fast stuff.

The $50 I spent on the auto darkening welding helmet was well worth it, though. Right in line after that high speed angle grinder in my list of most valuable welding equipment. . .

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Doggone it, I'd thought about doing the "k-member cut & weld" as shown above, but I'd just about convinced myself that I'd be OK with just the "massaging" that I was able to do with my 4-lb. mini sledge...

Now you've got me thinking about it again...!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Admittedly I didn't have the best angle on it, but I was whacking it pretty good with the 8 lb sledge and didn't budge it. This should do the job without any material sticking up where you don't want it.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Im not a huge fan of smacking things like that with a hammer. When you displace metal that heavy, other metal has to move to make room. Not saying it wouldnt work, but In my opinion the better way is to cut and weld.

Last time my k-member was out, I took the grinder to it. Since I was grinding on the corner, I actual "burnt" though in a couple spots. Since I wasnt prepared to cut and weld (due to laziness) I just quit and put it back in.

Also, until you have the motor bolted to the trans, and the motor and trans bolted to their mounts, you wont know exactly how much space you have behind the heads. You should def be good to go with that notch cut though. That way more than most of us have at this point. hahaha.

J.

Shift06

I have been worried about k member clearance too, and notching it like you did was something I haven't seen any pictures of yet. Looks like a great idea though, I think I will go the same route. Thanks for posting pics five7kid.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Second attempt at the AC notch. Should clear with margin now. Certainly not show or production quality, but should get the job done.

Get the brake lines remounted, we'll try again to get this engine where it belongs!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Looks like you've got room for the a/c now! Looks about the same size as my notch. I cant remove the manifold off the back of the compressor while mounted though...not that I need to. But ive read in some places where the preson was able to remove that without unbolting the compressor.

J.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i didn't have too much trouble with it clearing the stock k-member. i set mine down in the hole today. the stock replacement rubber mounts i got from O'Reilly gave me a bit of a fit, but i'm also used to working with solid motor mounts. all i did was grind the weld smooth on the back of the k-member. clearance could be better, but i didn't feel like taking the time to notch that sucker up.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

I finally gave in & started notching my k-member tonight, but inadvertently moved my grinder wrong & blew up my (one) cutting wheel...

I'll get a few more tomorrow & finish up then...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I think I used up something like six 3" cut-off wheels and three 4" angle grinder wheels.

Just thought I'd offer some encouragement. . .

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Hahaha... I dont usually even fire up my grinder unless I have a small fleet of back up cutting discs. haha. If I take my time, I can usually wear them down to the mount collar. If I take my time...

With that said...I wouldnt have been able to build my first car without my 4" grinder. That thing is like a dremel for men. haha.

J.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I didn't run them down to the hub. The linear speed of a fresh disk is much higher than a half worn one. When they got down to about 2-1/4", I tossed them.

Similar but for a different reason with the grinder wheels. The best cutting is done with the fresh surface; after awhile the time wasted on a worn wheel is a lot less than the time it takes to put on a fresh one.

cam-

I use Walter brand zip cuts... Three times the price but they last five times as long and cut twice as fast and twice as clean. Another BIG TIME favorite of mine is the Walter Enduro Flex disks. They are a laminated flap sand paper abrasive wheel type unit but wow can you ever leave a smooth finish with those things PLUS they take off substantial material at a decent speed.

Walter is like Snap On in the grinding world. My angle grinder has a clutch so if its binds up in saves the disk from exploding and prevents you from losing grip and dealing with a hairy moment.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The Harbor Freight store is 2 blocks from my house. I'm still trying to decide if that's a blessing or a curse.

da.slyboy

iTrader: (1)

The Harbor Freight is a little less than a mile from my house and believe me it is a curse. I walk in with my coupon flyer hoping to pick up a bundle of sanding disks for two bucks only to walk out with a new floor jack.

cam-

HAhaha fortunately for me ( unfortunately? ) Princess Auto is a bit of a hike and the closest Harbor Freight is a couple hrs drive so I fair pretty well. Although I never drive by one without stopping in and seldom leave empty handed haha. Last time it was socket organizer trays and rubber coated gloves

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Sunday afternoon I was looking for a new grinder wheel, couldn't find any. HF closed at 5, so I ran over there real quick. They didn't have exactly what I was looking for, but I picked up a pack of assorted wheels for $10. Back home, I was looking for the spanner to replace the wheel and found the box of wheels I was looking for, had only used one out of the box.

It was then I started asking myself, "Is it a good thing that Harbor Freight is so close?"

Also while looking for the spanner I found 2 boxes of 3" cut-off wheels, one unopened, that I apparently had before I bought the 20 pack.

This is starting to concern me. A couple of years ago, my wife and her brother were cleaning out their parents' home. They found a book-box size box of white shirts, all new still in their plastic wrapping. They had price tags from $2 to $6 on them (should give you an idea how old they were). We all knew what had happened - their dad would see an ad for shirts on sale, would go buy one or two, and their mom would put them in the box when he got home. He would probably open up a new one maybe once a year, but he just couldn't resist the bargain he was getting at that sale. And, if the day came when he couldn't afford a shirt, he knew he'd have one. The irony is they were the wrong size for her brother or me.

For me, it's tools instead of white shirts.

StangKiller

Is all this cutting and grinding your doing just to fit a standard LS engine into your car? My 350 isn't long for this world and I just started doing research on swapping in a 5.3 or 6.0 LS into mine so I'm looking at what it's going to take.

cam-

Bwwahhahahah I'm sick! After all this talk I couldn't resist a visit to Princess auto so i went today and bought a bunch of stuff i dont really need but couldn't pass up. I bought another four pack of three jaw pullers for EIGHT BUCKS! Insane... I paid over 50 for my first one years ago. I also bought a pair of wire twisting pliers so when i redo my brakes I can do a better job with the safety wire this time. Olfa razor knives that auto lock for FIE BUCKS! Bought a few of them and a bunch of replacement blades for 2.50 per five. Black blades too the tough ones.

Hahaha my name is cam- and I'm a junk'aholic....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Notching the back of the K-member, from what I can gather here, is optional, especially if you drop it down, mount the engine, and drop the car over the engine/K-member. The clearance between the back of the K-member and front of the oil pan will be tight. Those who fabricated their own mounts seem to get by without clearancing.

The notch in the front on the passenger side is if you want to use the factory LS1 f-body AC compressor. I don't know how many times I've flip/flopped on just deleting AC, but my original intent for the car was to have operating AC. I had originally planned on relocating the compressor, but the brackets & compressor I got seem to stick out too far and looked like they were going to hit the strut tower. After I get the engine bolted in, I hope to be able to check that one more time. The disadvantage is it raises the CG of the car (well, maybe not much, but it will raise it).

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Doing a bit of "catching up" in this thread...
Heh, thanks. I wasn't able to get any replacement cut-off wheels until today, so I just now finished up my own notch. Comparing yours with mine, I think that yours is noticeably deeper, I just "took a little off the top" (figuratively speaking), just enough to provide a tiny bit of clearance for when the engine flexes. I've installed brand-new poly motor mounts, so it shouldn't flex TOO much...

Yep, I hear ya - mine's within two miles, & sometimes that's ENTIRELY too close...

Wait - that would be a lot funnier if it didn't hit just a little bit close to home...

OK cam-... Put the wallet down, & back up slowly...

LOL - that's a great quote, definitely sig-worthy...

(And the "normal" Dremel is for what - the French???)

Cool - I'm not the only one here who thinks of "slightly oddball" stuff like that. (Not that a vehicle's CG isn't worth considering, but I suspect that quite a few people wouldn't even spare a 2nd thought about moving a very small percentage of weight like that, & how the CG would be affected. Glad I'm not the only one...)

I'll try to get a picture of my notch up tomorrow, if time allows. (Not meaning to hijack your thread though...)

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

OK, I had a little bit of time to work on the car today, & after slapping some sound-deadener material around the interior I started to look around for some steel to use to close up the notch in the K-member.

I found a piece of steel that appears to have once been a divider in an old-style file cabinet, it's a really good size to use, but I don't know how thick/heavy it should be. My HF calipers measured it right at .050" to .052" or so (which is right at 18 ga.) - my first inclination was that it would be OK so I cut it to roughly the right shape & ground all of the paint off the edges so that I could weld it on & then "finish grind" it to match the K-member contour. But then I decided to get some more opinions before doing that so that I don't mess up & have to do it twice...

What do you guys think? Is 18 gauge steel enough for the 10" wide notch in the K-member? (I've actually been considering pounding the top of the K-member down a bit to gain a bit of rigidity like five7kid mentioned above...)

Thanks guys.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I got a piece of 2" x 3' 1/8" strap from Ace. The crossmember is 1/8". I don't think you'd want anything thinner.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Ignoring the structural reasoning...it will be harder to fully weld that thing metal to the thick metal and make it a nice strong weld. With the two thicker metals, you can just burn it on. Get a nice puddle going and push that sucker all the way around. No burnin through.

Grab a piece of scrap steel as five7 suggested. You'll be much happier and you know its strong enough.

J.

HDon22s

iTrader: (2)

I installed a 6.0 in a 88 iroc 2 weeks ago. I didn't notch the crossmember & have room to reach the trans bolts from the top. what gives? Just install the motor from the top trans from the bottom. I know thats not how they do it on tv but thats the easiest way imo. you don't even tilt the motor much & it sure beats removing the k member unless you like the work. I would rethink where the motor mounts are on the frame there are several poss.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

The problem some of us are having is after the motor is in... No clearance between the k-member and the pan. Doesnt matter what order you put the motor and trans in. The problem comes from pre-made motor mounts. Guys that build their own stand offs, can place the motor where ever they want (front to back).

oh...and installing the motor and trans from below isnt just how they "do it on tv". Its how a lot of us do it...its the only way Ill ever do it. Not saying the conventional way is wrong...

I wish I would have notched my k-member last time my car was apart. Or...I wish I would have made my own stand offs. haha. Oh well. Its fun pulling the k-member...right??

J.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. Before I'd even gotten out of bed this morning, I'd decided that I was going to use a heavier piece of metal. Given what I want to do with the car (definitely a trip to Bonneville, & hopefully a bit of open-road racing), I realized that it would be profoundly stupid to risk earning my own Darwin award just for the sake of using a piece of metal that was conveniently at hand.

("...pick [me] up with a stick and a spoon" indeed...)