Time to revisit this topic with some new info. I had another thread going, but what I posted didn't bring it back. Probably too old. Anywho. . . .

I've been searching far and wide for more info on the 8.1 Vortec & swapping it into my Firebird, and came up with some interesting stuff.

I was originally under the impression, since all pics I found sucked lol, that the motor mounts were like LS1's. Not the case. They are like any other classic SBC and BBC on the frame side and BBC on the engine side. No issues there.

I thought custom headers were the ONLY way I could go. WRONG. I found out the head's exhaust ports are identical to that of classic BBC's as far as size and bolt hole configuration. So, although I'll still need custom ones made, the Hookers would work. . . .kinda. The block is a tall deck, so squeezing BBC swap headers in there will require more frame cutting than I'd like to deal with. So I'll go custom anyway, but it will be easier to get parts and bends done, ina sense.

Also, since I thought because the engine was "new" the mounting for the trans bellhousing was maybe different. Not the case. I could use my current 700R4 if i wanted to, but I'm not. Now, the only problem I have is deciding if I want a 4L60E or a T-56 swap.

Cam shafts I assume would be few and far between. Again, more options than I thought, kinda. Even though they changed the firing order on these motors, like the LS1, someone was able to swap the cam to a ZZ502 with no problems and it runs strong. There is a way to get around the firing order problem as well.

Since I can use a majority of classic BBC cam's, the firing order would be changed back to old school style. The same fellow that swapped his cam didn't use the stock ECM. Instead, he opted to use a MegaSquirt unit for the fuel and a Ford EDIS system for the timing. I think he also used other than stock fuel rails and injectors, so everything was a bit cheaper. In all of the parts I think it's about $400-$600 for everything for fuel and timing. This includes the MegaSquirt, Ford EDIS module, coil packs and crankshaft timing components. So you can still run as a dizzy-less ignition.

As far as other internals, a lot of the parts are close, but not the same. Like the crank will have to be an 8.1 specific crank sinck classic ones are external balanced and the L18's are internal, abnd there are other issues I can't think of right now. So, for now all of my intake, heads and rotating assembly will be coming from Raylar. Unless Eagle or someone jumps in and makes some good parts. All I can find are things good for 800+HP, which is good. But I might want to make it a track only car and want 1200+hp lol.

Off and on, this is what I have come up with so far. It's getting easier as I go, or at least looks that way lol. Mostly it's like swapping a traditional BBC in the car.

Now, to find a motor and get to swapping. Pic's to come when I get things going.

 

First off, awesome research, should definitely be helpful if anyone else wants to do the same.

As far as cams go, almost all of the cam companies can now make any cam with the new firing order, so it should be no problem to get a good traditional BBC cam reground on the new firing order for this engine and computer. just have to ask for it. IIRC, its like $50 more and you just specify the new order. Thats it.

 

Yeah, I forgot to add that and forgot about custom grinds. I knew I missed something lol. I think it is about $50 to $100 depending on desired specs and who you use.

All in all, it's taking less modification than I had imagined and would be left to just the normal BBC swap work.

A couple other things to add. Since I'm swapping my K-member for a tubular one and going with a manual rack, I thought there would be a small issue deleting the PS pump. I had forgotten about these in marine applications. So, if I can find a HiPo boat place that has the bracketry I need, that will help. But in the mid-west, that might be a little hard lol.

Of course, as with any big motor swap, cooling is an issue, especially on 3rd gens. I'll be using a 3-4 coor aluminum radiator and 16-18" electric fan. Or dual 12's, whatever fits.

While the car is under the knife I'm going to take care of all of my other chassis, suspension and drivetrain upgrades as well. No sense in having big power if I can't put it to the ground, lol.

There are some other things I was going to add, but they escape me at the moment. So I'll add them later.

 

I remember what I forgot, lol.

The oil pan issue. With my set-up and using a tube K-member, clearance isn't a problem, sorta. I'll still have the pan to ground problem. According to one person, he has the 8.1 in his truck and the pan he has is steel. But all I have seen were cast aluminum. If I can in fact find a stamped steel pan, I can have a local fab shop shorten it a little. But before I go that route, I still need to see if a classic BBC pan fits. If so, I have more options.

Another thing I wont know until I get the motor is how it will fit at the firewall. Since there is no dizzy, it should be fine. But there is also the issue of the tall truck intake. Raylar does have a different intake that looks a little shorter, so I might be able to use that instead. It would be nice if I could get everything to fit under my stock hood, lol. But I really doubt it.

 

Well, as a fellow member here, and I have 2 of these engines at the shop, i will share my info. I dont see how a cam will fit into that new block out of a zz502, since that block has a totally different cam. You need a special orderd one from comp. I have one, if you want it, ill sell it to you, pm for details. The oil pan is totally different, and they never came with steel, always cast alum. You cant really change the fireing order if you plan to keep the puter, as there is a crank sensor in the block, back by the tranny. well actually a cam sensor. The only way to not run a puter is to get a cam drivin distributor, along with a totally different intake manifold. Let me know what you find out, as i was going to do the swap, but found it easier just to start off with a 454 block...

 

I think you misunderstood what we were saying about cams. You don't have to change the firing order within the computer. I mentioned using any traditional big block cam profile with reground with the new order to open up the cam options instead of having to use of the ones specifically ground for this engine. At least you should be able to do that unless the 8100 has some special cam provision.

 

I think you might have missed the solutions to the timing and firing order. I'm not keeping the stock ECU. This is where the Megasquirt (http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html) comes in and EDIS Ford ignition. The timing is crank driven on an EDIS. Go to this site, http://www.lt1swap.com/index.htm , and click the link up top. This is the guy I got a lot of info from.

Also, he did use a classic BBC ZZ502 cam in an 8100 and drove home the same day. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=18

As for the oil pan, there is another guy I talked to that said he did in fact get a stamped steel pan on his 8.1. But most I have seen are cast pans. So that's a matter of having a guy here in town make me one if I don't find a steel pan to cut.

All of the info I have is rom owners of the 8100, developers of parts and people that have swapped the motor into other trucks. So, I'm just going by what they have done.

 

You guys might want to check with Arizona Speed and Marine; they make an intake and other performance parts for this engine, and could probably offer some help.

 

Quite a few parts also available from Raylar. http://www.raylarengine.com/index.htm

I think the AS&M parts are made by Raylar anyway. It's been a while since I have been there, so I'm not sure.

 

Ok ok... well how to plan on gettin that throttle body to stay under the hood? As for the cam, Keith and the owner and comp cams both told me that the cam is 8.1 specific, no matter what, different journals or something or another, just telling you what they said. Hell, then ill go find a genV block and put it in one of them with a new firing order. Oil pan should be the last of your worries, i am sure Moroso would be more than happy to fab one up for you.. These engines are very good engines, as Dana just finished testing them. After seeing what they can do, i would have loved to put it in my Camaro, but the parts are so expensive yet... Hell, a carb'd intake is like 1200....

And jus for kicks and giggles, you my as well port the exhaust ports on that before you go out, because them exhuast ports are horrible, built for all out torque of a truck.... Have fun with your swap, i may do the same thing then later because i have 2 of these sitting around....

 

Ok so it was me that misunderstood I didn't know it was an 8.1 specific cam, and totally missed you using the Megasquirt. I've heard good things about that ECM setup, my brother is considering it for his 462, and I might wait and do a Super Megasquirt for a boosted setup later on down the road once it comes out. Good luck with the swap when you start, looks like it will make a nice setup.


on another note, do you have any links to sites for swapping this engine into other trucks? this post got me thinking

*Nevermind, wen't back and found the links you already posted

 

Well, I don't know then about the cam lol. The guy who put it in his 8.1 didn't have a bit of problem using the ZZ502 unless there are some details he left out lol. But there are a few 8.1 specific cams out, so that's no problem anyway. One way or another I can get one lol.

And on the exhaust ports, Speartech is currently porting stock heads on 8.1's, but I think there is a flow problem if you try to gasket or header match them. So you can't open them up very far. But I think the aluminum "Big Power" heads from Raylar are a solution to that.

Ehhhh, by the time I get all the details figured out, I'll have the block to get started.

 

Hey some more info on my swap.

camshaft GM# 12366543 $161.00 shipped ZZ502 Crate Engine Camshaft, 224/234 @ 50 544/527 lift @ 1.70

rocker arm studs ARP-135-7201 from summit racing, $75 shipped

aluminum roller rockers, used, $75.00 from friend. $175 new for ANY big block chevrolet.

checked pistion to valve clearance, good, and coil bind at max intake lift, .070.

i'm using a 6.0L throttle body with a cable, got rid of the Drive by wire setup, alot easier. the bore on the 6.0L throttle body is the same size as the opening to the 8100 intake

i used STOCK 8100 fuel rails i bought new form the dealership, and used a set of LS1 25.5 lb hour injectors for the time being. the injectors are taller then the stock 8100 units, but was able to make a spacer to lift the fuel rail up about a centermeter.

humm..currently in 50 degree weather i can bump the key and it starts up and idles great. i've done a few datalogs with Megasquirt and my fuel table is about complete.

like any 8100 it sucks the gas, but who gets a 8100 for gas millage?

here are some 8100 specs from my GM Service Information 2000

Bore 4.250 same as 454
Stroke 4.370 same as GM 572 crate engine
Compression 9.1:1

Main Bearing Bore 2.9372 to 2.9379 same as Mark IV
Deck Height 10.231 TALL Deck, Mark IV is 9.831

Camshaft Journal 1.9477-1.9497 same as Mark IV
Camshaft Bearing ID 1.9507-1.9517 same as Mark IV

i also have all the stock spring specs, installed hight, installed spring pressure, and closed spring pressures if anyone wants them.

also, cylinder heads have 2 more head bolts then Mark IV, i'm betting one could pull the heads off and bolt Mark IV, V, or VI heads on and plug the two extra head bolts. havnt tried, but guessing, better check for coolant seepage, i know Mark V and VI blocks have coolant problems with Mark IV heads.

visit my website
www.lt1swap.com

currently working on 6.0L swap into 1962 Impala with 4L60E, Megasquirted and hopefully Megashifted
also LS1 swap into 83 toyota 4wd megasquirted mud buggie

 

Well comp miss informed me then... Heads will not fit, i dont care what you say. I tried, and it was not worth the hassle. You need 8.1 specific heads, because of the 2 bolt holes. It is located between 4-6 and 3-5. The only way to really fix them is to fill the original ones in, and drilla nd tap new holes, not worth it... You could run into valve and cylender alignment problems... But if you want to try, go rite ahead.

 

some interesting info on an f-body 8100 in THIS thread.

edit: 2nd page

 

I didn't see anything useful there for this 8100, totally different 8.1 L than what they used at SEMA, not to mention I dont think they used an 8.1 since the ZL1 had a 427 and this is a 496.

 

Bringing this from the dead for a reason lol.

I've been busy with other stuff; school, business, snowed in lol, etc, so I haven't been able to move forward on the project. But, hopefully, I'll have the majority of the motor and parts in a few weeks and have something running to get base line numbers on the dyno and the 1/4 mile. then do a tear down for all the goodies.

I have started selling everything off of my Firebird that's stock and added weight to pay for this project as well, lol. See my ad in the classifieds.

Xing my fingers I find and install my 8100 by the end of Feb and be ready for March T&T.

 

If you need an 8100 let me know. I also have plenty of parts for them. MAF, Intakes, Rockers, Pushrods, plenty of things. I also have a complete new engine. Just needs to be assembled. I have a new Comp cam for 8.1 to, if you want the specs, let me know. I will seel it cheap, 150. I paid 310 for it. Brand new, and is a pretty radical, but will use a 2500 stall.

 

To show what great topic that is

I REVIEW IT ANOTHER TIME


I am so happy that I found finally a forum where the members are familiar with that great engine.

My story that I live in Austria/ Europe and the liter of gas is 1,95$ and up. So a fuel injected engine is big gain for me aldough my car is only a just for fun car for the summer.

I have a 1968 Impala convertible that is a SS427 clone in between and I have bought a vortec 8100 short block for it.
I did not know that I buy a gen VII engine but as I realized what I have done I loved the engine as a usual BBC with that power and a injection system would have cost 10x what I have spend.
I plan to conect the 3,08:1 12 bolt posi and the engine with a 4l80e.
In many forums the members are not interested in that swap topic and say: why dont you take an old style BBC?
Me, I dont understand why I should pay much more for an engine from the 60Žif I can benefit from the technical develpment of the last 50 years in what engineers spend 100 000s of hours and GM milions of dollars, right?

Ok, with my shortblock some other parts came, like the plenum, windage tray, oil pan and some other parts.
The seller made the engine with new bearings and piston rings.
I was thinking to complete that engine but now I think about buying another one as they are cheap to get.
I will use the best parts of both and resell the rest.

What I want to use in every case are alu heads but that raylar stuff is that expensive that I thought it is a bad dream.
Many members have a lot of experience about that engine but nobody seems to be familiar with the coolside II project, possibly the first custom car with Vortec 8100.

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/auto.../coolside.html

If you followed the link you see that they have used GMPP gen V / VII alu heads and a accel plenum if I understood right. Or does the Gen V and VI also have this new intake ports design with that high but tight intake ports?

I need a lot of recommendations from you guys, I have friends who have very fast musclecars but in that case I cannot ask them for advises as they dont want to understand that a injected engine does not use such radical cams, at least I have been told so.

It would be very nice if we could make a knowledge base in this thread with every fact of any member about the 8100 like

what is interchangeable

where to get aftermarket parts

what is importand to mention and to note

what is to avoid

who in the forum got a second engine for me or parts to complete my one

What is to change in any case (I plan to reach 550 to 600 hp)

with which software can I reprogram the ECM with my laptop for changing rear end gearing, cam-specs, VATS-off, tire diameter... all that is possible but I never found the software.

......


Please members, you are my last chance to get that swap done, dont let me suffer


The first importand questions are:

does the gen V / VI heads have the same intake ports as the gen VII (that would be great) and which of both is to assamble with a gen VII?

What is a good cam design for a light car like mine 3680 pounds. First I thought I should hunt the torque but I think that beast got more than enough low end grunt in any case for my Imp so I will look for more mid-range and some more high end power and so I will go for horses now.


Ok guys I hope and wait and dont save with pictures


Thanks Hannes