2 dope

I want to get a cam for my 305, Im not going to get new rockers etc, just want a new cam to make my car sound big and lopey lol, what size and kind? I like summit brand if they have any good ones. My motor is nearly stock say for the cam from a 350 in it already and my headers.

Stekman

Have you tried a search?

ME Leigh

Big and lopey is not a good thing! It means the engine is not running right. It will get horrible gasmileage and not have any power. But if you want a "cool" sound by all means go with a big cam. Find a summit cam with about 230 duration at .05. You don't need a good cam because you will be replacing it soom. So go with a cheap cam.

2 dope

yes I have, didn't find many answers

Stekman

All the different 305s out there....I'm sure theres something

Anyways, for any form of recommendation, we need a bit more info on the car.

What is its primary use?
What form of induction?
Emissions?
RPM range?
idle quality?
Vacuum importance?
transmission?
stall speed?
rear gears?
Compression?
What heads?
Any work done to the heads for either more flow or lift?

ME Leigh, if he wants sound, I'd give him a few more degrees at .050"...maybe 240 or 250.

2 dope

ya, I forgot to mention that its a carbed 305, emissions legal, for now.

I want lopey idle, nothing that will cause my car to stall, just to sound mean.

Vacuum should remain as its a daily driver

tranny is 700 ,auto

rear gears are stock

stock heads

stock compression, as far as I know

scratch the lopeyness, I dont want a car that has no power but sounds good blah.

Stekman

Xe256h or similar

2 dope

what about summit ? or go smaller?

rpm-3,500-7,000
244*/254* @.050"

Stekman

I was joking when i said about the duration part. The cam you post is a race cam. Close to zero streetability under stock parts.

Think small.

Look for a powerband of idle-5000 or so. Summit cams aren't bad for the price. Again, think small.

2 dope

lol , gotcha


summit

1,000-3,200 rpm, 194*/204* @ .050"

or

2,000-4,500 rpm 224/224 @.050"

RB83L69

Look at the XE256.

The difference in price, over the whole course of a cam-swap project, is negligible.

In addition to the cam and lifters themselves, at a bare minimum, you're going to absolutely have to have a gasket set, and an oil & anti-freeze change.

But, while you're disturbing things, you'll probably want to put on a new water pump; a new timing set; maybe some rockers that aren't made of rubber; push rods; you'll DEFINITELY want to change the valve springs, since the stock ones will prevent an aftermarket cam from working like it's supposed to; you might maybe want new belts & hoses; rebuild the carb while it's off; replace the dist cap & rotor & plug wires while they're off; etc. etc. etc.

Then again, you can stick whatever cam you want in there; but it won't do much if that's not the thing that's limiting the engine's performance now. Think of your engine as being like a bunch of pieces of garden hose, all in a series. The cam is just one of them. Other pieces could represent the heads, intake, exhaust, carb, etc. Imagine that you have 25' of ½" hose, followed by 25' of ¾" hose, followed by 50' more of ½", followed by 75' of 1" hose. Imagine that you take that 25' of ¾", and replace it with 25' of 1" hose. How much more water flows through the whole system? Now imagine that you replace that with 25' of 2" hose. Now how much more water flow do you get? Your engine is just like that. If you want your garden hose thing to flow more, you replace the longest piece of the smallest hose with larger (and if possible, shorter) hose; right? Think the same way about your engine. If you had replaced the 50' of ½" hose with 25' of ¾", you might discover you just made 4 times as much difference for ¼ the cost. That's 16 times more bang for the buck. You just won't be able to brag to your friends that you have 2" hose. But what really mattters? Results, or romantic-sounding "big" parts?

So you might very well jam some cam in there, and discover that the car actually goes slower. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened to somebody; happens more often than you might think. So after you do all that, you discover that maybe the LG4 exhaust manifolds with the 1½" ID outlets, and the 2¼" drinking-straw Y-pipe with the place in it that's smashed almost flat, is where your restriction really lies. A whole exhaust system from heads to street is around $600.

So, how much difference to the total cost of the project, is that $50 on the cam kit? In exchange for how much reduced performance potential?

Is it really a deal?

2 dope

I have headers on my car now, changing al that you listed is rather too expensive for me. Ihave my carb off right now as I had to clean my intake. I am getting a new distributor and cap etc. I just don't want to put new rockers and springs in right now, but if i need new springs then thats ok i guess

I already have a cam from a 350 in it, not sure from what, the springs may not be able to let my new cam work as you said though. If I wanted to change my lifters, rockers etc, would I have to take the heads off the block?

I thought just changing the cam would be beneficial enough as I dont plan on racing, I just want mild street car.

F-BIRD'88

The first one is a "stock cam" for a 350. it will have a smooth idle even in a 305.

generally a cam with more than 220deg@.050 will give you that lopey idle you're looking for.

the second summit cam with 224deg@.050 fits that criterium.

You will get less manifold vacuum at idle, a noticable loss in low speed torque at anything under 3000rpm, probabily higher exhaust emissions and less fuel mileage.
it will have the lumpity idle you're looking for and more power at 4000rpm and higher.
This cam will like a much higher stall converter than stock and much higher rear gearing, and more compression ratio.
a 10" "3500 stall" is not too much. a 4.10 rear ratio is not too much. with your overdrive trans, a 4.56:1 rear gear is "not too much".
Without these changes this cam will basicly be a mutt in a stock 305......but it will have the idle you're looking for.
You'll want to "recurve" the distributor advance curve for this new cam. basicly you want more initial timing at idle. and less mechanical advance travel, allowing 32 to 36degrees total mechainical at 3500rpm. combined with vacuum advance fine tuning.
With the gearing, converter and distributor timing changes you can make this cam swap a success.

2 dope

is this the correct data for that cam...256/268 447/454" 1000-5200 rpm? Im looking at the jegs catalogue and that is the one with 256 I'm not sure this is the right one,it seems a bit high?

Keith_Indy

You don't have to take your heads off to put new lifters or rockers on.

In fact, you'll be taking those parts (rockers, pushrods, lifters) out to put the new cam in.

2 dope

ok thanks everyone. I think I will go with the summit 204/214 , 420/442 1,500-4000 rpm

or

xe256h

but since the summit cam comes with the lifters, Im leaning more towards it.

F-BIRD'88

A much better choice for the real world.

Here is a good Canadian source where you can get the same cam and lifter set as your 204-214 cam, shipped to your door ( canada post) for a good price.
Comes with good fegeral mogul lifters, full instructions, breakin lube and a "Cam Doctor" cam lobe computer printout. Nice stuff. good warranty.

If you e-mail Accelerated motion cams with the cam set you want, they will give you the current price including shipping.
you'll find that very same cam grind and many others in their listings.

Keith_Indy

That is the one that was recommended. The lift may be a bit high for tired stock springs.

The duration at .05 is more important than the advertised duration of 256/268. For this cam it is 212/218

http://www.compcams.com/information/...56H-10_001.asp

For other Comp Cams

http://www.compcams.com/information/...ts/DynoSheets/


SUM-1101 has 194/204 @ .05 and .398/.420 lift
SUM-1102 has 204/214 @ .05 and .420/.442 lift
SUM-1103 has 214/224 @ .05 and .442/.465 lift

2 dope

its settled, well somewhat, i will get the SUM-1102 has 204/214 @ .05 and .420/.442 lift


now for springs, any suggestions? keep in mind this is all done on a budget of say $200-300 excluding the cost of the cam

after we establish what springs, then i will move onto pushrods, if i need them

meanfarmer

Have you checked at the parts store for some OEM type cams
such as a stock 327 350 hp cam with lifters and spring kit..
This cam has plenty of vacume for brakes but
also give you a lope that your looking for...
Very good cam especialy for the street...
I've used a few of these and have never been sorry...
If its good for the oldies it is still good today. perfect Circle
number is 229-1713.......on the cam ...
Good Luck!!!!!

F-BIRD'88

S-D 1.26"OD/104#@1.70"/277#@.490Lift Speed Pro VS739R*16 Is the right hi- per replacement spring for this cam. it is a drop on replacement.
If you want to eliminate the exhaust rotators you will need 8 normal type intake valve retainers and a stack of 3 valve spring shims (.015"+.030+.060") to compensate
on the each exhaust valve.
You can use stock pre '87 pushrods if they are in good condition.

2 dope

they sell them at jegs as "blueprint musclecar cams" correct?


222/222 447/447 2200-5200rpm,only thing is it dont come with lifters


I have an 85 so they should work, they seem to be in good condition but I have not taken them out so.

so many cams to choose from lol

ME Leigh

Thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Thats like saying my 8086 computer i used 20 years ago was good enough back then so it still have to be good today. Hey right. You statment could not be further from the truth.

2 dope

so that cam is a no no?

F-BIRD'88

Not a bad deal. this cam has a sweet idle. Just right for a 305....but again because of its duration it will want a higher stall converter and more rear gearing like the bigger summit cam.
Nice bumpity idle, ok vacuum, ok brakes. good drivability,
less low speed torque than the smaller summit cam.
Don't forget about Shipping, US$/Can$ conversion, UPS customs brokerage fee, GST PST.
Give Amotion cams a look and $compare$. That grind is there too.

2 dope

sorry for my ignorance, but what is a stall converter and with less low end torque, that will be a problem? Like how much would i be losing?

ME Leigh

Stall converter=torque converter. You will lose all power thorough out the rpm band with a large cam. Get a XE256 and it will make tons of low-end power and much more hp then stock.

RB83L69

That 222/222 .447/.447, the old "151" cam, is one of the worst cams ever made. I have never, ever seen one single motor that had it, that actually ran good. I would throw one in the trash (in fact I have, several actually) and throw a dollar in with it, and figure I came out ahead because I didn't make somebody mad by giving it to them. But that's being politically correct about its "function challenged" aspects; catch me sometime when I've just driven one, and I'll tell you what I really think about it.

If you want to go cheeeeep, you want to hear some "lope", and you want it to run better but don't really care if it runs the best possible (i.e. the guy next to you could take the same motor and put some other cam in it and beat you) then the Summit cam that's 214°/224° (1103) is probably the best one to get. It will probably run a good half-second faster in the 1320 in a 305 than that 151 POS.

You want a cam with a bigger exhauxt lobe than intake, no matter what; until you work over your heads, the exhaust is its weakness. As we all know, there are 2 ways to make a time-proportioned valve flow more: either make it bigger, or hold it open longer. Pretty basic stuff.

You can't re-use used lifters. Don't even hallucinate that you can cheeeep out that much and get away with it.

I gotta agree about the XE256 though, for a stone stock 305, it's a great choice. Even though the specs of that 1103 look alot like it, it isn't.

F-BIRD'88

A "hi- stall converter" is a torque converter that has a higher stall than stock. A typical "stock converter" has a stall speed of about 1700rpm.
A "hi-stall torque converter" allows the motor to "spool up" to a higher rpm when you floor the gas pedal.
This higher stall speed allows the motor to bypass the low(er) rpm range that a larger duration than stock cam has touble with.
Hi -stall converters made for a th700r4 are a bit pricey.

part of the joys of installing a big lumpity cam in a small motor.

You'll have to carefully consider what you want from a cam change and what other parts will need changing
and what that will $cost$
A larg(er) cam will have a nice lumpy idle but will want more rpm more rear gear, a hi stall etc etc.
The old 327-350hp L-79 cam is about as big as I'd go if you're just looking for that "muscle car idle".
It will do that. It will make more high rpm horsepower than a stock cam. It will make less low speed torque.
You'd want to compensate and quardinate the rest of the drivetrain to best match it for best results.
This cam is 40 years old. It was designed for a 327 corvette with 11:1 compression, good fuelie heads, a high rear gear ratio and no emissions testing. And 25c/gal premium fuel. It can work well for ya with other mods.
A cam like the XE156H-10 or a summit cam or Amotion cam with 204-214@.050 .420-.442" lift would be a better choice overall. sans"the muscle car idle"

2 dope

wow, so much confusion lol

anyhow, Id say its between these 2 for sure, cost is in my budget


SUM-1102 has 204/214 @ .05 and .420/.442 lift

SUM-1103 has 214/224 @ .05 and .442/.465 lift

F-BIRD'88

both good. $price is the same$

the smaller one will make more low end torque.
Better if you have a low rear gear (2.73) and a "stock converter"
The larger cam will make about 7 more horsepower at peak but will give up about 7 to 10ft/lbs or torque to the smaller cam till about 3000rpm+/-.
It favours a higher rear gear ratio like a 3.73:1 and a moderately higher than stock torque converter (2500-3000 rpm)
Are you willing to make these changes.
Neither of these cams will have a "muscle car idle"
the second one is a little more aggressive at idle than the first.
Yes...... No
if not pick the smaller one.

2 dope

I can live without the musclecar sound, its not that important, i want my car running the best it can for the amount of work i can do.


SUM-1102 has 204/214 @ .05 and .420/.442 lift , this is the one, yup, I made up my mind(I hope) LOL

where can i get these springs?






Im not sure what that all means, lol

F-BIRD'88

F-BIRD'88

quote:
If you want to eliminate the exhaust rotators you will need 8 normal type intake valve retainers and a stack of 3 valve spring shims (.015"+.030+.060") to compensate


Im not sure what that all means, lol

The exhaust rotators are thicker and heavier than the lighter normal retainers used on the intake side.
The 305's head is machined with deeper exhaust spring seats to compensate. If you want to swap the rotators for lighter/thinner normal retainers, like used on the intake side, then you want to shim up the spring seats on the exhaust side to compensate. A stack of 3 shims .105" thick will do it.
If you don't want to change the rotators don't worry about it. I would put new valve seals on too.

Look at the Accelerated Motion Cams site. All the part numbers are there. Its all Federal Mogul stuff.
here is the Speed-Pro number for the camshaft

CS1014R 204"/ 214" 0.420/ 0.443 112" 278"/ 288" Hyd.

RB83L69

That cam is available wherever cheap cams are sold.... you can get it from Melling, Speed Pro, PC, etc.; all of the non-researching type of cam grinders, the ones like Accelerated Motion; or, if you just really want to pay too much, you can even buy it from Edelbrock as the "Performer Plus" cam. It's a really old grind, very common, works pretty good for a street motor that you don't expect too much out of, one of those where you aren't "going wrong", but you won't be winning races either if you're running against people that have a clue.

Do a little research. It's basically a commodity, like sugar or salt or something, not like it will be different depending on where you get it from. So just get it from whoever can deliver it to you for the least $$$. Don't overlook your local parts store; if they carry Melling (Auto Zone) or Perfect Circle (PartsPlus) or Federal-Mogul/Sealed Power/Speed-Pro or any of those other full-line hard parts suppliers, they can probably get it, and it's not impossible that it wil be cheaper that way than having it shipped. Your local speed shop or auto machine shop is another place to look.

Same for the springs.... those are stock replacement springs. Again, pretty much a commodity. And the lifters as well.

Do the shim thing, get rid of the rotators, they are beyond useless, they are anti-useful. You can pick up shims from your local machine shop; maybe even for free if you buy the cam and springs and stuff from them.

N8MAN1068

how about something like:
218/230 dur @0.05, .462/.480 lift, on a 113* lsa?

i wouldnt mind having something on a 110-112* lsa for street fun.

2 dope

www.amotion.com has closed shop, they are no longer in business, although they may reopen in 2005

84zeddd

I had a buddy who had a 69 `Cuda.It was metalic purple with
centerline rims.It had a 318 2barrel,duel exhaust and the biggest
cam he could find.The car was a slug,but he was just happy to
shake the fenders.

Tremo

Look at the tech section on this board, and check out the cam specs on the 1988 LB9 engine. Yeah, it's a roller, but look at the lift and duration. I have one of those engines, and it has a smooth idle at 800 RPM. Of course, the LSA on that cam is real big so it reduces the overlap. So if you want a lopey idle, you'll need something bigger than that LB9 cam.

F-BIRD'88

Really..... Well, where the H*&& am i going to get my next cheapy cam and lifter set now???

here's another one for ya. Also in B.C.
www.hi-performance.com

Same shipping deal.

Did ya call CTC?

65panhed

2 dope you really need to read and research the boards for a while to figure out what is in your best interest..........accumulate parts as cash becomes available and do it right the first time.........researching the boards will give a very good education

2 dope

Ive done my research, most of the cam questions are from people with tbi etc, its not like im just asking questions for the heck of it.

RICHRAD

Awhile back I freshened up my 305 with the CompCams 268he High energy and true roller chain. I left in the cc carb and dist plus all the sensors except egr. Replaced the water pump and several gaskets including head gaskets and also rebuilding the 416 heads. I was told I would have idle problems, low performance, codes thrown,etc.. Well, Have to say I'm a believer of the total opposite... With an open element, the stock 2.73's and an edelbrock cat-back exhaust it became twice the car. Engine fires right up and sounds just awesome...A little bit of lope and very responsive throttle... I have just finished headers and a 3.42 posi so I'm expecting even more. That's my 305 experience

N8MAN1068

xe268?
dag...i shoulda stepped up to the nx268!
i went witht he nx262 b/c the power band was up to 5900rpm, and i figured it'd shift UP in a 305, so i wanted to stay safe

84 Restore

I bought the 114132 (summit part number) I think its the 2040 cut not sure tho.

Specs are rpm 2,000 - 5,000 duration@.50 int-210* ext 216*
Lift .440"/ .454"

How is this going to run in 305 ported polished, Bigger intake valve1.94, valve springs (matched) with headers.

Am I going to need a stall conveter. If so i am going to make praAK calls to summit because he said it was going to be fine in my car. What I read above I am going to make a lot of calls

I need your help

Stekman

The part you suggest is a Crane grind. It could benefit from a bit more stall, whether or not it's absolutly necessary, hard to say, you could probably get away with it. Crane, to me, is a bit more leniant when it comes to RPM bands in comparison to Comp's of similar nature. For example, where Crane may be 2000-5000 (as in that cams case), Comp has a similar cam in both lift and duration that has a 1200-5200 powerband. So I would say you could probably get away with it.

It would work pretty well with worked over heads. Anything to increase it's ability to breathe, the better.

Sitting Bull

Stekman's right. You'll be fine with the stock torque converter. Hope the port and polish worked well.

Post us some pictures, eh?

84 Restore

I have finished one head and the other is going a lot faster now I know what to do in each part. I should be done with it this week. I am afraid to post a pick because I don't know what I am doing and u guys do. So I think it looks great but you guys will say it needs work then I will feel bad and have to clean it up and I will have to go throught the whole prosses again. I AM just kiddding. I have done my homework on this and I think they are going to be good. I compare mine to Sitting Bull's pic and they are pretty close. I will try to get some pics in the next couple of days. thanks again

Tobias05

man tweaking up a 305, more power to you. I've wanted to do the heads, cam, exhaust routine as stated by RB on my LG4 but i realize its got 190k and knocks from either the bearings or the timing chain or a scrapped cam lobe or something else nuts. I'm under the impression this car sat for years before the previous owner sold it.

I've got my eyes on the 350HO; I have hedman headers and a vortec RPM intake sitting right beside me along w/ a "B" hanger for my sweet CC Qjet. I've yet to order DR rods or the engine itself, but its coming...

Ppl dog on 305's so much, I'd love to see what a highly modded one would do in person.

But wow, light that thing up they've got a ton of potential as long as you know you need to fix the weak spots, not just throw on the shiny stuff.

BigWerm05

What cam would be good for my 84 Trans Am?

its a carbureted 305 H.O.(L69)
700R4
i want a rough lopey idle

I was also wondering what the max valve lift is on the L69's heads?