Craig Moates

Folks,

I have in mind a little something which might be of interest, and just wanted to get some early feedback.

What I have in mind is an adapter of sorts which would allow a person to use a 29C256 Flash chip in systems which normally accept the 2732A chips in that funky plastic holder. It would allow the user to load the Flash chip with up to 8 different programs and then to select which one to use via a 3-position dip switch. Probably couldn't do it on the fly, but just by reaching in the ECM you could change it up.

The Flash chip could be removed for reprogramming via ZIF socket. It will probably stick up a little to prevent putting the lid back on the ECM access hole. Without a ZIF, it could probably be buttoned up though.

Any interest? I have one particular question regarding cross-compatibility of the proposed device with respect to the clearances and such associated with different ECMs. I'd like to make the device so that it would fit a wide variety of applications. Do all the ECMs which use the 2732 chips have the same clearances with respect to the access panel and such? Is the chip insertion layout/mechanism the same? The list of ECMs I have in mind so far include:

1226870
1227148
1227170
1227747
1228062
1228063
1228746
1228747
16136965
16144288
16146299
16156480

I could have a working prototype in a couple weeks.

Many thanks,
-Craig

AlexJH

I am definitely interested.

goneracin

Would it work in an older S-10 blazer?I have an 89, 4.3 tbi thats been modified, and would be interested if it would.
Thanks

steve8586iroc

Craig, I'm in. I hope GM did it right this time and made them all similar if not the exactly the same.

Steve

lars92RS

You have no idea how many 2732A's I've busted pulling them out of that infernal Black Holder! This would be the best thing since sliced BREAD!

-Lars

TRAXION

Me toooooo

Tim

Craig Moates

Here's a picture of this ECM I have for fitting purposes. It's a 1226870. The photo perspective is pretty near dead-vertical. Please note the location of the EPROM socket with respect to the case edges and everything else. Is it like this for all the 2732 systems?

Also please note that the 'red dot' I put there to mark the assumed 'notched' end of the chip (pins 1 & 24). It's by the smaller of the two tabs which the socket shown has sticking up. As you look at the picture, also note the relative orientation of the 'EPROM leg slots(?)', split up into groupings of 2 and 3 on the upper & lower row, respectively. Look right?

Any remotely helpful feedback would be much appreciated. If you have or have seen a 2732-accepting system which lines up differently than that which is shown, please let me know.

Basically, what I'd like to do, is to locate a ZIF centered vertically in the aperture, which is with a centerline about 1/4" down from that of the 2732 slot. Also move it to the right about 1/2" to allow for clearance on the left for locating the dip switch. So if the layout on other ECMs is different such that doing this makes stuff crowded or bumping up onto ither crap, then it's screwed. Also, need verification that the notched end of the EPROM goes to the center of the aperture. If it does in some cases, and not in others, then it's likewise screwed.

Many thanks...
-Craig

Astro4X4

Of the three different 2732'd ECMs I have seen, they have the same daughter board for the chips. I put a quality ZIF in my 1227747 ECM and after a small/easy mod to the board mounting, I can still fit the cover on the ECM. When I get home today I will post some pics for ya.

JPrevost

There isn't a problem with the zif socket. It's actually REALLY easy to do so long as you're good with a soldering iron. I've done this to about 5 now without any problems. The zif sockets I use are the beefy versions, not the low profile. So no, it doesn't fit under the stock lid but who cares? That is such a small problem in the big picture. Besides, anybody that enjoys playing with eproms has their ecm on the floor anyways .
I'm very interested in using a flash prom and the 8 extra programs is also a great idea so long as the cost isn't too outragous.

TRAXION

Craig,

If I remember I will snap a pic of the 747 tomorrow.

Tim

Craig Moates

Anyone else with some photos of their 2732 slots? It's getting time, I want to get a prototype put together this weekend. I'd like to know that it will work with more than just the 747 & 870.

Anyone have qualms about hot glue? That's the best way I can think of to anchor this thing to the ECM. It could be pulled out and the glue peeled off I suppose. Better than drilling & tapping holes.

I still need to know for shure if the 2732 chip orientation is such that the divot (pin-1 notched end) faces toward the middle of the ECM rather than the edge. Also, how much clearance between the edge of the access panel hole and the other end of the 2732 socket piece? This is critical, since I'm trying to jamb a little functionality in there.

Thanks!
-Craig

lars92RS

Yes the Notch in the 2732a goes towards the Netres or center of the ECM.

There is .5" between the Socket piece and the edge of the access panel.

FYI: the 2732 is also good for the 8746 ECM.

-lars

Chop_Top

Ya gotta know I would like one!
If you need 747 or 8746 to work with let me know.

Marlon

Craig Moates

I'm coming down on a firm design I believe will work well.

OK, so no more pics coming? Then I'll have to assume that all these 2732-bearing ECMs are EXACTLY the same. Same chip position & orientation, same clearance around the aluminum case area, same distance from the edges of the access hole to the edges of the EPROM socket. If not, then the application slate will be somewhat limited and I'll have to revisit the design in the future.

Barring any revelation to the contrary, I think I'm ready for a prototype. I'll get the PCBs made up this weekend. It will consist of a 28-pin ZIF for mounting a 29C256 Flash chip a little higher & to the side of where the 2732A gets put, should be pretty much centered vertically in the access panel hole, a little toward the 2732A slot side. There will be a dial about 3/8" diameter for memory bank/program selection right by the ZIF handle (not for on-the-fly, but should give 8 banks to choose from). I'll make the selector socketed, so relocation to a more convenient point at a later time MIGHT become feasible (we'll see, not convinced that will work).

To mount the piece in the unit, you'll have to hot-glue a 24-pin standard DIP socket to the existing funky socket, and then my device will slip into that. It should be mechanically stable, and if you want to later, you can put just a 24-pin ZIF or a 2732A in the hot-glued socket. The adapter itself should come out with relative ease when you want. If desired, the hot-glued socket can be taken out by gently prying, and the hot glue will come right off after that. Then you can return the system to stock condition. Anyways, the lid won't close with the adapter installed.

Once I get a piece put together (probably next Tuesday/Wednesday assuming the PCB work is successful), I'll get some pictures posted. I'll need a beta-tester, since I don't have a TBI car to try it out. Unless someone local wants to wander by...if not, I can send a sample out and have one of you guys test it out if you're interested.

JPrevost

You've got mail

burntblues

Craig, maybe this is what your already planning, but what about a zif-eprom adaptor for the tbi's? I know that yours is doing that, but at the same time allowing multiple chips, and I see your other zif-ecm adapter, but there really isn't one for the TBI units with the messed up memcal carrier.

I really don't want to trash my carrier thing or the board by repeatedly taking it in and out (I know it probably wouldn't, but you'd be surprised what I can accomplish). And I don't want to damage the eprom the prying it out of the carrier repeatedly.

If you couldn't make a batch of the sockets, could you make one for me that I could buy? I don't really need multiple proms plugged in at once. I can't really solder that well (you should see my cables that I've been making) and busting a carrier or shocking my current prom would be terminal since the car is my daily driver.

Thanks Craig,
-=-Mike

JPrevost

burntblues, if you want, send you ecm to me with compensation for the zif socket and return shipping and I'll solder the zif on.
I'll admit that I'm not the most skilled but you'd be amazed what I can do with a good Weller iron .
Craig, let me know if you want me to test the prototype out.

Craig Moates

Yeah, that's a breeze. All you gotta do is pull the cover and you can desolder the funky socket and put in a standard socket or ZIF. That's pretty sweet.

Another way, even easier, is to take a collet-pin 24-pin socket, hot glue it into the funky socket hole (REAL easy), and then take a nice meaty 24-pin ZIF, bend the arm slightly, and snap it in. Works like a charm. I'm looking at one right now.

I'd be glad to make this little kit available to everyone also, it's real simple, definitely does the job.

However, it will NOT allow the use of Flash chips, you'll still be stuck with the EPROM 2732A-type. That is the best thing about the other route is you can use the Flash chips. The multi-program deal is kind of a side-effect if you will.

It might be tomorrow before I can get the protoboards ready. Anyone interested send me your address via Email and I'll get a couple prototypes out on Friday for folks to test. If it works out, we can talk about pricing or return ship or whatever.

-Craig

burntblues

Jon,

Thanks for the offer, but I really can't go without the car for a couple of days while waiting for the ECM to come back, I need it to get back and forth to work. And I need to be able to go back to stock just in case.

Craig, or Jon, if you could do the ZIF adapter for me, I'd appreciate it. I'll drop you an email right now with my address.


Thanks,
Mike

Loyde

Craig,

I will help in testing this. I have been on the DIY-EFI list for over 3 years but have only recently started burning chips for the 3.4 camaro motors using the 1227170 box. I have 747, 730, and a few other 2732 family boxes, and all are the same structure.

LKM, I will forward an address.

Loyde

Craig Moates

Alright, I have ONE made. Needs to be tested. I've got PCB enough for 12 total, and parts enough for maybe 2 more right now. I'll hold off on ordering additional materials until I get some feedback from 2-3 beta-testers saying "IT WORKS!". Here's the pictures of the finished prototype unit.

If you see anything that looks like it might not work, let me know. I know, I know...It sticks up high... SO BE IT! Also note the need for hot glue, works pretty well!

Better picture at: http://members.***.net/craig.moates/.../2732adapt.jpg

-Craig

JPrevost

sweet jesus, that's a quality piece
I e-mailed you my address. I have finals in a few weeks (yes it's later than everbody else) so the sooner the better.

DSLDUDE2001

I have a 92 TBI, and I would be very interested in one of these units. With this, I can program a flash chip, slap it in, and have up to 8 bins on one chip??? That's awsome!! Is the little turney thing for switching between bins? I understand a little about what I am looking at, but not much. Please post again when the beta test results are in... I'm really looking forward to buying one of these beutiful beasts

JPrevost

Just got it in the mail. I opened up the box thinking I'd find this little thing...instead I found a glue gun...I was depressed because it didn't click for a few moments. I didn't actually think you were going to send out a glue gun!
I just stuck it into the existing zif socket I've got on the board. I'm about to try it out. From what I've heard, grumpy has 2 thumbs up and I expect I won't be any less enthusiastic. You'll hear from me VERY soon.

Nate Hanson

I'm also very interested, how much were you charging for these?

Nate

JPrevost

Weeeee, that was fun. I loaded up the bins in Compaq visual fortran's developers software, modified the locations 0004, 1004, 2004, 3004, 4004, 5004, 6004, and 7004 to all have AA (disable check sum). The car runs great even when changing between the calibrations. The only problem was that 0 on the switch doesn't actually mean the bin that's stored in the locations 0000 through 0FFF, infact I still don't know because it was getting late.
Craig, the only change I would make is to use some hardware to secure the device into the socket instead of the glue gun. Sure it's only $4.00, but it's still messy. I really can't tell because I've got a zif on my ecm's but if I ever want to play around with a 7747 and use this the glue would be the only way .
Wow, I still can't believe how smooth and easy it is.
So now that we know for a fact that the ecm doesn't burp so long as the eeprom is full of only values (no code), isn't it almost a given that emulation is right around the corner?

Craig Moates

Cool, glad to hear it works!

On the hot glue, there's a very specific way to do it. If you thought it was messy, I can assume you did not try the 'injection-molded' approach I had in mind but had yet to share. Like you said you already have a ZIF, was there any clearance problem with the arm? Or did you have a ZIF in a soldered socket and just pull it out first?

I'm out of town, so if you could share it with the other members of the beta list, I'd appreciate it.

1) Remove the old 24-pin EPROM carrier
2) Take the solid-bodies 24-pin socket which has the two 'anchor' screws on it
3) Snap the socket down into the GM slot. You will have to push down on it until the 'shoulders' of the socket pins snap down into the GM slots. Gotta make sure the pins are relatively correctly located on the stock leaf springs.
4) Check that the socket is nicely seated. The plastic of the socket & the GM hole should be pretty flush on all sides, with little to no visibility of the socket pins.
5) Heat up the hot glue gun, and then position the nozzle tightly into one of the three holes visible at the top of the socket. There are three holes, you should only have to squirt into the 'outermost' two. The middlemost one will spooge when you inject.
6) Squeeze glue into the two select holes one at a time, holding the socket down in with your free hand (hydraulic pressure of glue will cause it to lift out). Look for any glue spooging out along the edges or crevices, and let that serve as an indicator of when the 'wells' are full.
7) Now you should be good to go. There should be little to no glue visible, and the socket should be extremely secure. If you want to remove it, best bet is to use the little 'ears' on each end of the GM piece as fulcrums to lever the socket out with a small screwdriver. Just be careful to lift it out such as to avoid bending the pins. Once you get it out, the two hot glue squares should be a breeze to pop loose. Then you can go back to stock or di it all again!

This is the best thing I could come up with after a couple weeks dicking around. I'm WIDE open to new ideas though, and would welcome a solution which is feasible and easy enough for people to pick up on.

Many thanks,
-Craig

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Lots more logic needed for this. It is much more complicated......is possible though.

J

Grumpy

If you load a single image it's at posistion 7, then a seocnd one at 6 etc. etc. the with being posistion 0/

This is like too much fun
GTech and a WB and things only take minutes.

The 2732 proms do contain code on them.
So when you switch your changing code and some data.

JPrevost

I don't see where there is any code other than FCB and FDB. Those are all just stored 8 or 16 bit values. Is there something I'm missing or is some of the code the uncommented FCD/FDB lines?
I finally have my parts kit coming to me, I just need to find/aquire a board and the sensor.

Z28GEN3

Im sold.

Mangus

Way to bring one up from the dead. ;-)

This exists. www.moates.net.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, this has been under so long its got worms and stuff coming out of it.

Yes, craig has one. No bin switching like the origional but still more then adiquate.