3800 gtp swap
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
3800 gtp swap
hi im going to do a 3800 gtp motor swap in to my camaro.
been thinking about it for year's and ways to fix the issues i could run up on, oil pan is one need a fbody setup ,then the starter (can you flip flop it?),next is the water neck no issue just make a hard line like a fiero ,next the tranny i can use a 60*t5 tranny right ? with the metric bellhousing(but there's that darn starter issue again) then motor mounts can i use a older 3.8 (3800 dose it have the spots to mount it up ?) to make it more of a drop in setup motor wise ?? and other issue i may have not thot of ?. thank's for any help
been thinking about it for year's and ways to fix the issues i could run up on, oil pan is one need a fbody setup ,then the starter (can you flip flop it?),next is the water neck no issue just make a hard line like a fiero ,next the tranny i can use a 60*t5 tranny right ? with the metric bellhousing(but there's that darn starter issue again) then motor mounts can i use a older 3.8 (3800 dose it have the spots to mount it up ?) to make it more of a drop in setup motor wise ?? and other issue i may have not thot of ?. thank's for any help
Last edited by 92camarorv6; 01-04-2013 at 08:55 PM.
#2
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LH6
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Auburn Posi
Re: 3800 gtp swap
hi im going to do a 3800 gtp motor swap in to my camaro
been thinking about it for year and ways to fix the issues i could run up on oil pan is one need a fbody setup ,then the starter (can you flip flop it?),next is the water nack no issue just make a hard line like a fiero ,next the tranny i can use a 60*t5 tranny right ? with the metric bellhousing(but theres that darn starter issue again) then motor mounts can i use a older 3.8 or 3800 block to make it more of a drop in setup motor wise ?? and other issue i may have not thot of ?
been thinking about it for year and ways to fix the issues i could run up on oil pan is one need a fbody setup ,then the starter (can you flip flop it?),next is the water nack no issue just make a hard line like a fiero ,next the tranny i can use a 60*t5 tranny right ? with the metric bellhousing(but theres that darn starter issue again) then motor mounts can i use a older 3.8 or 3800 block to make it more of a drop in setup motor wise ?? and other issue i may have not thot of ?
#4
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
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From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
A) All 3800's, whether FWD or RWD, should have mounting bosses on the sides of the block for longitudinal mounting.
B) For the transmission bellhousing, you'll probably need to use the bellhousing off a 3800-equipped 4th-Gen F-body to make the starter work. However, this will probably require you to use the T5 from a V6 4th-Gen F-body, since they are different from all the T5's that came in the 3rd-Gen.
C) Like mentioned before, you'll have to do something to route the supercharger inlet. This might provide a bit of a template for what you'd have to do:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thr...f-bird.352126/
Post #10 will show you what you'll have to do to the supercharger to make it work in your application.
B) For the transmission bellhousing, you'll probably need to use the bellhousing off a 3800-equipped 4th-Gen F-body to make the starter work. However, this will probably require you to use the T5 from a V6 4th-Gen F-body, since they are different from all the T5's that came in the 3rd-Gen.
C) Like mentioned before, you'll have to do something to route the supercharger inlet. This might provide a bit of a template for what you'd have to do:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/thr...f-bird.352126/
Post #10 will show you what you'll have to do to the supercharger to make it work in your application.
#5
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
ok so what if i stayed with my 700r4 ? and can i use just the later 96-02 fbody mounts ?
#6
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LH6
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Auburn Posi
Re: 3800 gtp swap
Either way, your 60*6 transmission will not bolt to a 90*6.
#7
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
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From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
A) Sticking with an automatic would be easier, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to use your 700R4. They should both have the same GM Metric bellhousing pattern, but I'm not sure if the starter location would still be an issue. It almost sounds like it would be easier to get a complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen 3800 V6 F-body.
B) I have no idea about using 4th-Gen mounts. Maybe, if you got the complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen, you could get the mounts with it. Then see if that lines up right. If not, since these motors are 90* V6's, maybe you could rig something up with some SBC 3rd-Gen mounts.
B) I have no idea about using 4th-Gen mounts. Maybe, if you got the complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen, you could get the mounts with it. Then see if that lines up right. If not, since these motors are 90* V6's, maybe you could rig something up with some SBC 3rd-Gen mounts.
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#8
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
do you guy's really know what your talking about or guessing what happen to all the smart older guy's,from what i read alot of what i have will be bolt in
#9
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,280
Likes: 31
From: Northwest Ohio
Car: 1991 Camaro RS
Engine: BBC 509 Merlin ii 9.6:1 pump gas
Transmission: ATI pro th350 sfi case. TSI 5500 st
Axle/Gears: Strange S60 4:10s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
Doing a 3800 swap is far from a bolt on process.
#10
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LH6
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Auburn Posi
Re: 3800 gtp swap
A) Sticking with an automatic would be easier, but I'm not sure if you'd be able to use your 700R4. They should both have the same GM Metric bellhousing pattern, but I'm not sure if the starter location would still be an issue. It almost sounds like it would be easier to get a complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen 3800 V6 F-body.
B) I have no idea about using 4th-Gen mounts. Maybe, if you got the complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen, you could get the mounts with it. Then see if that lines up right. If not, since these motors are 90* V6's, maybe you could rig something up with some SBC 3rd-Gen mounts.
B) I have no idea about using 4th-Gen mounts. Maybe, if you got the complete drivetrain out of a 4th-Gen, you could get the mounts with it. Then see if that lines up right. If not, since these motors are 90* V6's, maybe you could rig something up with some SBC 3rd-Gen mounts.
This.
#11
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
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From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
This will not be a bolt-in process. I'm pretty sure I never said that. Some of the components will work with what you have, and others will not. There will be some mixing and matching required.
The 4th-Gen F-body 3800 V6, with transmission and mounts, will probably be the best place to start. Your 3rd-Gen driveshaft and rear-end should work no problem with that set-up. Gears not withstanding. The mounts could work, or they might not. I don't know.
Once you have the mounts figured out, you can decide on how to do forced-induction. You can modify a GTP supercharger set-up to work on top of the F-body 3800, or you can go turbo just by flipping the exhaust manifolds from side to side and fabbing a custom Y-pipe to the turbo.
The wiring and ECU/ECM/PCM will be fun to integrate as well. I say "fun" in a very sarcastic tone, because that will not be easy.
Not a "bolt-in", but some parts will be easier than most.
The 4th-Gen F-body 3800 V6, with transmission and mounts, will probably be the best place to start. Your 3rd-Gen driveshaft and rear-end should work no problem with that set-up. Gears not withstanding. The mounts could work, or they might not. I don't know.
Once you have the mounts figured out, you can decide on how to do forced-induction. You can modify a GTP supercharger set-up to work on top of the F-body 3800, or you can go turbo just by flipping the exhaust manifolds from side to side and fabbing a custom Y-pipe to the turbo.
The wiring and ECU/ECM/PCM will be fun to integrate as well. I say "fun" in a very sarcastic tone, because that will not be easy.
Not a "bolt-in", but some parts will be easier than most.
#12
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
tranny k-mbr is the same. external parts that will need to be fabbed are: engine-motor mount brackets ( i fabbed up a model had welding shop make for $80) and a y-pipe.
Wiring was a bytch, using an 85 car, 87 (firebird) gauges, 95 engine/tranny harness/pcm. make sure you have schematics/pin-outs for everything, i even made my own fuse box for the engine compartment.
Wiring was a bytch, using an 85 car, 87 (firebird) gauges, 95 engine/tranny harness/pcm. make sure you have schematics/pin-outs for everything, i even made my own fuse box for the engine compartment.
#14
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LH6
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Auburn Posi
#15
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
tranny k-mbr is the same. external parts that will need to be fabbed are: engine-motor mount brackets ( i fabbed up a model had welding shop make for $80) and a y-pipe.
Wiring was a bytch, using an 85 car, 87 (firebird) gauges, 95 engine/tranny harness/pcm. make sure you have schematics/pin-outs for everything, i even made my own fuse box for the engine compartment.
Wiring was a bytch, using an 85 car, 87 (firebird) gauges, 95 engine/tranny harness/pcm. make sure you have schematics/pin-outs for everything, i even made my own fuse box for the engine compartment.
This guy should become your best-friend-in-the-whole-wide-world if you're going to do this swap because he actually did this swap before.
#16
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
ok the only thing im worryed about is the tranny will a 700r4 it the one i am using now and what about my t5 im using now ,and if not how will the 3800 t5 fit in there from the 4 gen
#17
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 28
From: Florida
Car: 1989 Camaro RS
Engine: LH6
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Auburn Posi
Re: 3800 gtp swap
The T-5 from a 4th gen will work, as far as I know they are the same besides the input shaft and bellhousing.
#18
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
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From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
I'm assuming you're asking if the 4th-Gen T5 will fit in your 3rd-Gen...?
If so, it'll fit in your car just like your current T5. The differences between the 3rd-Gen T5 and the 4th-Gen T5 are the case, which is the Ford style and gives it a different bellhousing-face bolt-pattern, and the input-shaft is longer than the 3rd-Gen T5. The 4th-Gen T5 will even sit at an angle like your current T5.
If you got an automatic out of a 4th-Gen, it should fit in there the same way as an automatic in a 3rd-Gen.
If so, it'll fit in your car just like your current T5. The differences between the 3rd-Gen T5 and the 4th-Gen T5 are the case, which is the Ford style and gives it a different bellhousing-face bolt-pattern, and the input-shaft is longer than the 3rd-Gen T5. The 4th-Gen T5 will even sit at an angle like your current T5.
If you got an automatic out of a 4th-Gen, it should fit in there the same way as an automatic in a 3rd-Gen.
#21
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
define "fit". I had the 98+ factory "headers", long tube manifolds and they hit the subframes. the frames on the 3rd gen angle in at the back of the engine bay and decrrease clearence. If i stayed w/the 95+ factory ugly looking *****'s it wouldn't be an issue as they don't stick out as far. If ou want to weld up a kit then it shouldn't be an issue.
#25
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
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From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
outputs staye the same, but c'mon, which design looks better..... the newer ones stick out from the heads more, thus the clearence issues.
#27
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
so im waiting on my motor reading alot of info on other forums and this forum ,trying to weed out the bul poop post and the truth it can be really hard at time's
this is my plan so far i want to use the stock 95-97 3800 manifolds ,the 95-97 motor mounts and the 95-97 front pully setup an then ill have to come up with some kinda intake
this is my plan so far i want to use the stock 95-97 3800 manifolds ,the 95-97 motor mounts and the 95-97 front pully setup an then ill have to come up with some kinda intake
#28
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
Likes: 0
From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
no 3rd or 4th gen mount will work, gotta fab them. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...-brackets.html looks like the link for pics is back up. will call tomorrow.
#30
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
Likes: 0
From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=18128 not sure if you need to register to see it or not, some pics of engine in car, not on cardomain site
http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=20644
http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=20644
#32
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: Sudbury, ON, CAN
Car: 87 IROCZ Z28
Engine: 3900V6 GT4088 intecooled
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.45 MSF Spool
#33
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
Project: 85 2.8 bird do you have the rear outs on the motor outs like the sizes and all
#35
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
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From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
um not sure how to say it but do you have masterments on the brackets so i can make my own set like the tep lets
#37
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
Re: 3800 gtp swap
No offense 92camarorv6, but you really need to learn how to spell and use at least a modicum of grammar. It would help us help you more efficiently.
#38
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,028
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From: St. Louis, MO
Car: 85' Firebird (Project), 92' RS
Engine: 2.8L, LS1
Transmission: 700R4, 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.42 Open , 10 Bolt (ukn)
Re: 3800 gtp swap
I don't see this project going forward based on what I'm reading.
Out of curiosity, 92, why are you wanting to build a GTP 3.8L car? The work involved (in stock form) will not be overly spectacular, and you could swap to a cheap LS motor just as well (say, 4.8L or 5.3L engine). Do that engine, with a carb setup, ditch the electronics, and have 280-315 horsepower out of the box.
Out of curiosity, 92, why are you wanting to build a GTP 3.8L car? The work involved (in stock form) will not be overly spectacular, and you could swap to a cheap LS motor just as well (say, 4.8L or 5.3L engine). Do that engine, with a carb setup, ditch the electronics, and have 280-315 horsepower out of the box.
#40
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
Likes: 0
From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
really, L67 long block, f-bod intake maniold w/turbo or a s/c (yes, there are kits out there for it) do the wiring, motor mount, exhaust & get a tune.
#42
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
i don't want to have a ls motor in my car and roll up to a show and see 2 or 3 more just like it that i and i like the v6s don't ask me why i just do ,and i was trying to ask 2.8 firebird what the dimensions were of the motor mounts he made up were so i could make a copy
#43
Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 357
Likes: 1
From: pardeeville, wi
Car: 1991 Pontiac Firebird convertible
Engine: 3.1 soon to be 3.4/3100
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: original gears, for now
Re: 3800 gtp swap
i don't want to have a ls motor in my car and roll up to a show and see 2 or 3 more just like it that i and i like the v6s don't ask me why i just do ,and i was trying to ask 2.8 firebird what the dimensions were of the motor mounts he made up were so i could make a copy
#44
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,461
Likes: 0
From: BFE, MD
Car: 13 Ram 1500/ 78 Formy
Engine: 5.7 / 7.4
Transmission: 6sp / TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.55 posi / 3.23
Re: 3800 gtp swap
not a clue as to what the dimensions were, I just mocked up the mounts in carboard. I also reused the 2.8 mounts, V8 mounts/positions may work better, but I reused what I could.
#48
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3800 gtp swap
well the 3800 is junk 80 bucks wasted buddy game me a 305 tpi motor free and a 700r4 kinda want to just drop a 350 tpi in there after the bad dealings and prochager it
#49
Re: 3800 gtp swap
Will the v6 camaro tranny bolt up to a gtp motor? I don't care about figment or mounting points just need to know if they both rotate in the same direction and they will fit together? Thx for any help you can provide
#50
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: DeKalb, IL
Car: 2006 Cobalt SS/SC
Engine: LSJ
Transmission: F35 MU3
Axle/Gears: 4.05
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